rule 1. salesman generally know naff all aboutthe used cars they are selling
rule 2. salesman genrally know naff all about cars, they are salesmen for new cars not mechanics
rule 3. salesman will have a margin to work with that they are allowed to discount (i.e. a percentage of the screen price)
rule 4. cars a dealeship command a heavy premium
rule 5. the ONLY reason a 11yo car is in a main dealers is because its either (a) very nice or (b) being sold for a customer/someone who works there.

if I was the salesman and you walked in a nad offered me $5.5k for a car with £8k on the screen i would put you down as atyre kicker and not be interested...you basically walked in and insulted the guy....you exepct him to take you seriously???

beleive me it wasnt your colour/clothes/religion/underwear choice you just wernt being serious and ovbviously had an attitude he couldnt be bothered to waste his time...

now IF you want the car get some independant industry standard documentary evidence that the car really IS overpriced (a printed guide price for that spec of car with those miles in that condition), look a the car honestly and appraise where its better or worse than that and got and talk sensibly to the guy, i suggest you start with

'look i really like the car and am prepaired to sign today IF we can do the right deal, the guide price is x, being fair its got this thats better than guide, this thats wors - so i think its worth y can you meet me somewhere on that'

I dont know the market at the moment in the US but i would guess he can probably do 10% without taklking to his boss (say $7.7k) - perhaps 15% with his boss...if they REALLY want it gone perhaps 20% - but they dont cos it wouldnt be there if they did...

Trust me on this salesman LIKE selling - it pays their commission, helps them meet target etc, but you walk in and offer him jsut over 50% of the list and he thinks you jerking his chain and dont intend to buy (which is the ONLY thing he is interested in)! oh if you fancy a risk wait until the end oif the month and try it - the car may go first, but if it hasnt i bet you get better deal then!

I recognize your frustration.

I purchased my 95 850 about 8 yr back from what I think is the same agency you describe. The experience was quite unpleasant. It was a car they had sold new and done all the maintenance on. This amounted to none, beyond changing the oil a couple of times (car had 30K miles when I bought it) and putting their ad sticker on the back of it. This was proven both by inspecting the car and looking at the records they reluctantly furnished. I somewhat overpaid because I liked the car - but it has worked out.

No dealer purchase I've ever made or considered was very positive but the above was better than many others - where the sales person denied the presence of obvious problems such as a tampered odometer or emission controls, blackened trans fluid, etc.

Private parties are not often as skilled at covering things and may plead ignorance if something is pointed out to them.

My overall sense is that getting a good used car takes some time - I have usually looked at 8-10 cars until I found one that I thought was the right car and fairly priced. The most usual problem is that the car was maintained to a very low standard (whether a dealer or private sale). The internet helps because it tends to normalize the prices and you can find hints about problems to look out for.

If it's any consolation I once took a very well-dressed and well-heeled Japanese friend to buy a car from a dealership and he too was insulted and patronized. I think the process knows no boundaries.

Relax, and good luck...

Hello,

They haven't got more than $2000 in that car. It's a $4500 car on the outside provided that all service is done and proveable.

White/black/yellow/green/purple a dumb ass salesman is still a dumb ass.

I paid 5k for my 855t last year.

--
Happy Bricking!!! - Richard - '95 855T 345k, '82 242 GLT 121k

Well,

I wouldn't be personally offended about it. I get the same crappy lines because I'm young. My mother gets the same crappy lines because she's a woman. My dad gets the same crappy lines because he works alot and doesn't have time to shop and compare. "You're not going to find one this nice" is just a standard, run of the mill expression by car dealers. Don't sweat it.

Besides, if he were to sell the car for $5500, he'd probably be fired. Does that make it right? No, but you really can't expect him to do the right thing if he's gonna lose his position. Its just a job to him, and a well paying one for someone with no education and no career goals.

I wish I could say "Don't worry, he'll call you back when he needs the money", but that only applies to private sales. The dealership will get some sucker to buy it for that price.

The price sounds high. Yet, I am not sure I would sell mine at much less than that price. We have a 1995 850T with 140k miles and so far it runs like a whistle (of course, we never know what may happen tomorrow). After 11 years in my hands, it became my spouse's car for 1 year (until this coming September), until our new S60 is broken in by me. Then, the 850T is going to come back into my hands again. It was just a few months ago when two 430SC Lexuses and one Porsche 911 were pissed off (at different times) with my 850T, on the highways of Chicago.

Complete records are a must, and (in my humble thinking) the car's treatment (by its driver(s)) during the first 6-12 months (or ~10k miles) is very important, unless the car is a lemon. (I know what the salesmen/dealers say, e.g., you can drive it hard right away because the manufacturer has run the engine for 1-2k miles [I was also told that when we bought our S60] sure, that way you will be buying a new car much sooner! [I am aware of one exception to this.]).

Our experiences so far with the 850T: the best car I have ever driven in the US (after ~700k miles) and all over Europe (after ~120k miles); its maintenance has been relatively low so far. Actually, it still runs so well that makes me worry a lot about it!!

As for our new S60, we are very happy with it so far, although it is clearly a FORD/VOLVO in many ways.

Finally, our 1987 240DL was purchased new from the Highland Park dealer you mentioned, and I am not surprised at all with your experience over there. I would also say that race was not probably a factor at all in your case, based on my dealings with them.

Oh yeah, sure, it's because you're black. That's why everything bad happens to you right? Get over it. You're the reason racism still exitsts in this world. What a joke you are.

Blkberry,
A year ago last November I paid $7500.00 CANADIAN for mine.
Excellent shape, about the same mileage, every option, Etc.
(It was time to replace our old 760).
No way, I'd pay $7500.00 USD for the same car.
I found mine on-line and bought privately which saved me
$525.00 in taxes, as well as the aggravation of dealing with
a sales pitch. I would never, ever buy a used Volvo from a Volvo dealership.
Typically, they are the ones who tell whoever is trading-in that it's
time to get rid of their car because "this is ready to go" or "if you
hold on to it for another year it'll be worth a lot less".
While I can't speak to the racial aspect of your experience, I can tell
you that when my wife first looked at our 1st Volvo @ 13 years ago, (at a
private lot) the "salesman" quoted her a higher price than what we settled
on after I accompanied her on the 2nd visit. It's true that all salespersons
size up a potential purchaser based on age, dress, jewellery, speech, and so on.
Puts me in mind of the guy who won 14 million and went shopping for a motor-home on his way back from picking up his cheque (check) -true story - Since he was dressed in cover-alls, had only one arm and was "dentally challenged" nobody at the dealership would even talk to him. As it turned out, a kid who was washing and cleaning the motor-homes on the lot asked him if he could help him and showed him through the biggest and most expensive rig. It turned out that he ended up ordering six of them for himself and his relatives on the condition that the commission be paid to the young man who took time to give him a look.
Up here we have www.autotrader.ca which is a great web-site for finding exactly the vehicle you want. I'm sure you can find the car you have in mind for @$5500.00. on a similar site in your home state.
Good luck and good hunting!
Armie

--
Luck favours the prepared.

I checked the kbb pricing for mine and got $8455 retail, $5865 private party, and $4080 trade-in. Figure "Black Book" (auction) at $1000 less or $3080 is what they'd offer me at the dealer. All records since new, the original clutch (knock-on-wood) and it uses no oil between changes.

My point is that you may do best to check the classifieds or put a note on your favorite indy Volvo shop's bulletin board. My general thought is that it doesn't matter how you're dressed or if you're green, most car salesmen - both new and used - are just rectums.

-BTC

'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 167k mi, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, XC grill, Lidatek LE30, V-1, Mobil-1 since new

"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." -- Douglas Noel Adams (1952-2001)

I was definately thinking of buying this one.I admit. I told the salesman that iwould buy this car if i could have it checked out by my indy volvo mechanic. He then said no problem.I then told the saleman that that price is really high. Then he got a little pissy. i told him that the on the high side the car is worth about 5600.low side was about 3 grand i think. He says " how much were you thinking?" itold him the most would be about 5500. That's when he started telling me about how i would not be able to find a volvo in this condition for that amount. Then he said i could only go down a "few hundred on the price." 7500.00. The funny thing is he said he had all the records from the previous owner but would not let look at them.


I'll stick with my 92 745T and my 90 245.

your intuition served you well. Car salesmen are in for the sale....
I use the NADA as my guide. I've also learned (hard lessons) that private owners are not always the most honest either. Beware the freshly cleaned engine and NO service records....

BTW, my 1996 850 I'd be very glad to sell for mid NADA book.