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HAS VOLVO GONE SOUTH? I HAVE OWNED THE SWEDES FOR 35 YRS, BUT NOW WITH SEEING
ALL OF THE ECU AND ELECTRONIC FAILURES ON THIS WEB SITE AND MY OWN EXPER., I AM
THINKING OF MOVING TO TOYOTA OR HONDA. Reason: my 99 V70T5 has already had two
(2) ECU'S CHANGED OUT - First, some unit with the HVAC CONTROLS, 2ND, THE ABS,
TRAC CONTROL UNIT. Hv an 86 740 with 220K, same original tranny, alternator,
power steer, etc. So what gives with the newer units? ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR
MODELS BETWEEN 93 AND 98????? IF I AM FOOLISH? ENOUGH TO STAY WITH THE VOLVO/FORDS? (Swede in Colorado)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mr. Norm
on
Wed Aug 16 08:22 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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According to an article I read this week, in terms of recalls vs. number of cars on the road, the brand with the highest number of recalled cars is ......... Toyota. The Camry is supposed to be a particular problem.
And then we can ask the Accord and Oddesey (sp?) owners about transmissions, which have been failing for several years. A friend just got a new one for free.
Nobody is building cars the way they used to, and the long term impacts to reliability are not good. I truly don't know what I would buy if I had to replace my 96 854T5.
Good luck.
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posted by
someone claiming to be chicagolandvolvoboy
on
Sun Aug 20 14:45 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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haha.. yeah, we got a lexus back in 2000, in no way does it hold up like a volvo. it is uncomfortable, steers like crap, and we've had an endless list of things go wrong which should not have gone wrong.the interior doesnt hold up the same as a volvo either and the seats are uncomfortable and the display screen on the radio went out and the dealer refuses to fix it.. sooo.. we're switching back to volvo this fall.
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posted by
someone claiming to be BigGuy
on
Sun Aug 20 15:37 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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You wrote about the Lexus: "interior doesnt hold up the same as a volvo"
This is surprising because the failing door panels and cracking glove boxes are infamous on the S70 and V70. The lack of support from Volvo NA made me conclude that I'll never buy another Volvo. Also, disavowing any responsibility for the ETM failures was disgraceful until the NHSTA investigated.
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have to agree.. i'm not impressed either. i'm a 20 year veteran auto mechainc. there are many vehicles if maintianed properly that don't need excessive repair. my s80 is a beautiful car and all but it's just plain a bad design. the placement of the twin turbo's and the excessive heat is just a time bomb. it's already experiencing electical failures at 60k due to this problem. the wire harness covers are so cooked they are equal to week old bread left out. they just crumble in your hands. i've left all of the engine covers off and removed the belly pan to help it "breathe" a little to combat the excessive heat. that said, ALL manufacturers have good and bad models. i've worked on sooo many 99-03 f-150's lately i'm starting to think it's a joke. bad axles, brakes failing prematurely, excessive rust/corrosion on the electrical points ie, grounds + boxes. oh, you want to see stupid? how about the alt. i just replaced on a passat. hat to take the nose cone off and the radiator support, the inner bumper and bumper shocks too. the whole damn nose!! this is to change the alt.!
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Do you have any recommendations?
We have 3 Hondas right now, and I'm impressed that you can get to both the heater core and AC evaporator without too much drama. But the Japanese makes have just about as much character as my refrigerator. And lousy seats.
The unreliable Eurojunk fits my butt much better than the Japanese. The dilemma - do you want to be annoyed when the Eurocar breaks, or be annoyed every day driving Japanese with the uncomfortable seats? If I buy another Volvo, it will be with the extended waranty, and I'll trade it the day before the warranty expires.
So what would YOU buy -today- to replace your S80?
-BTC
'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 169k mi, velour cloth seats, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, XC grill, Lidatek LE30, V-1, Mobil-1 since new. Goal: "Moonshot" (227,063 miles at it's perigee)
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." -- Douglas Noel Adams (1952-2001)
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ALL new cars have gotten more complex, especially with computers doing more of the work. If a dealer doesn't get a trouble code, then nothing is fixable! Of course, the hourly rates have gone up for mechanics and it is faster to just remove and replace parts than it is to fix them. Like your ABS module, Vic can repair it for $150, but it take a week or so for turn around and you have to do the labor. Otherwise, you pay the dealer $400+ and the module will fail again within 5 years.
Your 740 had different problems and the dealers around here won't even look at them anymore. Have you changed the center bearing yet? How about the U joints on the driveshaft. The radiator start leaking yet. No car is made to last more than 100K without being maintained with newer parts. The new cars just have more electronics which need to be replaced. Compare the fuse box on your 740 with the fusebox on your V70! Ouch!
Klaus
--
(V♂LV♂s 1995 854T, 1998 V70R)
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I agree. I have two 97 GLT's. I had a 89 760T preior to these. That one was bullet proff, fairly inexpensive to maintain, and was a great car. I can't think of a good reason I sold it.
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Yes, Vovlos hay day is over. It peaked for me with my 1993 940 Turbo that I gave to my daughter. At least my grandson has a good ride! I drive a 1991 Coupe (780 without the name badge). The Coupe's problem is that the Italians made the body...still, it is pretty solid yet with 202,000 mi. However, my wife has a 1998 V70 that has many issues. It rattles like crazy and the electronics are always doing something stupid. It is nowhere near the car of the earlier years. I still long for my first - 1982 240. It was bullet proof too. 340,000 and would run great on the cheapest gas around!
How about a 700 series Beamer?
Patrick
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posted by
someone claiming to be Stanley Rockafeller
on
Mon Aug 28 07:40 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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no, not a 7 series...I've heard my fair share of problems from owners.
Sure they are leaps and bounds ahead many of the problems of a FWD//AWD volvo, but the Aisin tranny from Volvo is much more durable than any of the bmw trannies
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They ain't what they used to be. Nice cars, great ride, nice appointments, but not on a par with Subaru, Honda or Toyota in terms of reliablility.
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Your car is 8 (eight) years old, and you don't expect stuff to break? We have a gaggle of Hondas (lawn tractor, lawnmower, garden tiller, 2 trucks and 1 car) and the reason stuff doesn't break on them is that it's not there to begin with.
Also, they rust.
If you like Volvos, buy the maximum Volvo VIP extended warranty with a relatively low deductable (I plan to next time). If you don't like Volvos, buy a Honda or Toyota.
-BTC
'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 169k mi, velour cloth seats, front IPD stabilizer bar, rear factory HD bar, Bilstein HD, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, e-codes, XC grill, Lidatek LE30, V-1, Mobil-1 since new. Goal: "Moonshot" (227,063 miles at it's perigee)
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." -- Douglas Noel Adams (1952-2001)
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posted by
someone claiming to be Swede in Colorado
on
Sun Aug 13 17:30 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for your counsel. The jury is still out about buying another 850 or 70.
Some of you have driven your turbos many miles. You are right - expect a few
repairs - just don't want $ 1,000 bill every time I pull into the shop for who
knows what? PS Love the story of the tensior breaking at 55 mph and destroys
the engine - who came up with that idea - Ford or Volvo? What's that old
saying Found On Road Dead??? PS2 - Yes, I did have an extended warranty until
July 31st. Just got the ABS/Trac control unit replaced under the wire + a seal
on turbo (rear), per dealer.
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posted by
someone claiming to be joey
on
Tue Aug 15 06:49 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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I believe I heard "Ford, Ford is the best...drive a mile and walk the rest". Is it my imagination of did volvos basically go south when Ford got involved with them?
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They are known for their longevity.
So, either you have to have deep pockets or do the work yourself to keep a Volvo.
They may actually be improving under Ford's stewardship.
Bryan
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The merger took place in 1999, the same year that the S80 came out. Unless Ford redesigned the car at the merger closing trouble was brewing well before Ford arrived on the scene.
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At least with 3 Hondas and 1 Volvo, our cars are on average pretty darn reliable!
The "interference" motors on Volvos go back to the first 850s in 1993; pretty much all motors from all manufacturers are interference designs now. Most competent shops replace the hydraulic timing belt tensioner every second timing belt change on the 1994-1998 Volvos, and it's manatory to replace the mechanical tensioner with the 105,000 mile belt change on the later 1999 up Volvos. If the shop does it wrong, you buy a new engine!
The only Ford designs so far are the S40, V50, C70, and XC90
Good luck, buy a Toyota if it makes you happy, but a Toyota ain't no Volvo -- and that's both good and bad.
-BTC
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posted by
someone claiming to be jeffery47
on
Mon Aug 14 01:50 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Porsche designed the engine for Volvo, at least did a lot of work on it, according to my 850 book. A lot of interference engines are prone to failures, either from the tensioner or the belt itself. I heard that Honda engines are not interference, which is unusual nowadays, if true.
My 95 855 has 182K miles now (non-turbo). It runs great, gets 26mpg, handles well and stops short. I did disconnect the headlamp washers, and the power locks aren't all working properly - some of that was my fault, but I can still lock/unlock the car, so I can live with it. The AC needs to recharge boost every so often, but at 6 bucks a can, no big deal. I changed the fuel filter, do regular maintenance myself, and have changed the timing belt myself, too. It wasn't too bad, about a 3 hour job, not something to rush through. It has never left me stranded, so I can't complain.
I think it helps if you are able to do some work yourself. The 850 is pretty easy to work on, especially with the code scanner built in (1995), but either way, codes help troubleshooting. I have replaced sway bar links, and lower control arms a couple times, not a big deal, mostly due to the firm suspension and poor roads. I finally replaced the brake rotors in the front at about 135K miles. The brakes are easy to work on, the engine bay is pretty good, at least for a non-turbo.
I like the solid feel of the 850, the doors still close with a thunk, and the paint is very thick. I read that 35 pounds of paint are put on, and judging from the couple of chips I had to fill, the paint is thick. Don't think you'll see that on a Japanese car.
Granted, some Volvos are better than others, production variation, etc. I think Ford bought Volvo in 2000 or so, and its doubtful that any buyer would have an impact for at least a couple of years. The DV cycle for a car is about 3 years. The first car with real Ford DNA is the S40/V50, which is shares a platform with the Mazda 3 and Euro Focus, both of which are nice cars in their own right.
My recommendation is to pick up a Chilton manual at least and a code reader, like carmd.com, and avoid the repair shop for routine stuff, or even replacement items. You can find parts online, and install them yourself. Don't be at the mercy of the indy repair shop. I get satisfaction from keeping the 850 on the road. There are some repairs I don't feel I would do - like the rear main seal I had replaced at 165K miles. We have become so specialized these days we seem helpless when something breaks, but it doesn't have to be that way. There are tools available.
It was rewarding to start the engine just after I replaced the timing belt, and the car ran fine (a little anxious though) but rewarding still.
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Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that the 5 cylinder engine in the 850 came from Audi-with a much lower compression ratio. Have a most wonderful Sunday evening one and all :)
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The gasoline inline Volvo 5 is a Volvo design. (VW has supplied Volvo with diesels in the past.)
Porsche did "some" of the development work; they have a big engineering side that does a lot of design contract work, and they have a lot of experience with turbocharged motors.
Audi did sell an inline 5 for some time; VW still sells a narrow-angle V5; and Daimler Chrysler (See: Dodge Sprinter) still builds a 5-cylinder diesel. Honda also sold an inline 5 in the Acura Vigor.
-BTC
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Totally agree with you :-)
Ching-Ho Cheng
--
1995 855 NA, Bilstein Strut & Shocks, Volvo Protective Grill, K&N Filter, E-Code Lens, ClearCorner Light, Alpine CD-Changer, AutoDim RearView Mirror, 6000K HID
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I would not assume that an engine was good because Porsche designed it. If you haven't noticed Germans are having difficulty making cars these days. Porsche engines may be sophisticated for a while but they are not exactly known for long trouble free life. Perhaps this is part of the problem - a Porsche designed engine.
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posted by
someone claiming to be BG
on
Sat Aug 19 11:40 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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The problem may be the basic engine, but it may also be a function of extended service intervals and stupid recommendations like "lifetime" fluids. The marketers want suburban buyers to think that they will not have to do much maintenance at all for the first few years. Meticulous maintenance is not in the normal American mindset. What I see from most of the messages on this board is that people who are really finicky on maintenance get great service from their Volvos. The rest complain that their Volvo breaks often. The same pattern comes up time and time again on the BMW boards.
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I fully agree that often people who most complain about the reliability of their cars are often the same people who do mediocrate care of their cars. So far we have had five Volvos, and our experience is that they get more and more reliable with each design. Our first Volvo 245/1984 was a great car but its maintenance cost us as much as the maintenance of V90 or 965 or S70 or XC70. However, as much as I loved my 245 I would not want to go back to it. Comparing with our newer Volvos the 245 was a weak, quite uncomfortable, slow, and quite accentric piece of technology. I truly think that people remember our 245 volvos through rose glasses. Like everything else, people have an inclination idealize the past.
Ta-ta, j.
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Toyota uses timing chain too for all it's sedan except SUV such as 4Runner.
--
1995 855 NA, Bilstein Strut & Shocks, Volvo Protective Grill, K&N Filter, E-Code Lens, ClearCorner Light, Alpine CD-Changer, AutoDim RearView Mirror, 6000K HID
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Unless something has changed recently, Hondas like the Accord and Toyotas like the Camry use timing belts, not chains. My old '90 and '94 Accords had a belt and my friends' Camrys (all late '90's) all had belts.
Chains (like on the 4 cylinder Toyota pickup) tend to be more reliable but still stretch and the guides and tensioners wear out. They can be a real bear to change as well. Unless you have an engine with a metal gear drive, a timing chain is still a potential maintenance item.
Andrew S.
'91 740
'98 Nissan Quest
'60 VW
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Mercedes-Benz timing chains (in comparison to Volvo's belts) in the cars I used to have, the M110 (2.8 liter straight-six, double overhead cam), M102 and M103 (2.3 four and 3.0 liter straight-six, respectively), all required regular replacement.
And if I had owned the 4.3, 5.0 or 5.6 liter V-8s of that vintage, it would have also required a major overhaul of the chain guides which were known to self-destruct (and thereby also destroy the chain).
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Wow - interesting change from a design standpoint. I wonder if this will be the trend going forward? I guess I haven't kept up with the latest Asian engines that Toyota, Honda and Nissan etc. are offering.
I am curious - do they specify any service interval for them? My Uncle's 1990 4 cylinder Toyota 4Runner has a chain (22R engine) and it needed replacement at about 150K even with 3K oil changes since new. It started rattling and he caught it just before it probably would have jumped time.
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