I've owned a 1980 245 for 7 years. It was my first car, and I've put my blood, sweat, and tears into making it cherry. But now I've got a job, and and finding myself yearning for more refinement and sport in my ride. I set a goal of less that $8000, and I'd like to stick with Volvo, so the 850 seemed like a good choice. There's one complication, it needs to be a manual transmission.

I have a few questions. First, I read somewhere that no turbo Volvos of that era came with a manual. Is that true? Second, did any wagons come with a stick? I've been looking at the 850 market for about 2 months, and I've seen one manual 1993 sedan. I get the sense they're basically impossible to find. If that is true, are there any other wagon models where sticks are more plentiful?

Third, what big issues should I know about the 850 series (and V70 as well)? Drive train issues, cosmetic problems? I've heard horror stories from several people regarding 850 models they owned that were just plauged with problems from day one. Am I downstepping in reliability going from a 240 to 850?

Any information you guys could provide would be great. Thanks!

Well I took the plunge a few days ago and purchased a 1996 850 wagon 5spd, with 125K miles. I hadn't had any luck finding a 5spd for several months, so in an off chance I would get lucky, I called up a retired Volvo mechanic in my area that sells and repairs choice Volvo's he finds at auctions, etc. He only sells by word of mouth, and loves what he does. The car needs nothing, and the interior looks brand new. I agreed to pay $4900, given that the car comes with a warranty, he provides viritually labor free work for the life of the car, and I like to support outfits like his.

Driving it around town, I can already appreciate the refinement I was seeking. It seems to be the right blend of luxury, sport, and safe solidity I was looking for. Now I just have to find a way to part with my beloved 245!

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I'll be a regular visitor in the 850 forum from now on.

I looked at a '97 850 T5 wagon today at a used import dealer in northern California. it has $135k miles and looks very clean. He will put new tires on it and do some routine maintenance, and is asking $8900.
(is willing to take my '82 wagon in trade, though we haven't discussed price)
I have always done most of my own work on the only 2 types of cars I've ever owned, a VW bug and three 240 wagons. My level of ability to do repairs is at having rebuilt the VW bug's engine and most everything else except the transaxle On the Volvos, the most extensive thing I've done is replace most of the engine wiring harness with new heat resistant wires and other electrical repairs and replaced the breather box buried under the intake manifold. I've loved these cars, especially my current "82 wagon which I am still reluctant to part with. While I change the oil religiously every 3k I have to confess to being one of those morons who tends to wait to replace the timing belt till it breaks. (I did the job on the side of the road in a mud puddle recently). Although I could retrain myself to be a little more conscientious about maintenance, the bottom line is that I love this car not because I love to work on it but because I hardly ever have to. (I never repaired the AC, just disconnected it instead)
My question: Is this 850 too high maintenance for me and is it more car than I need? Unlike most here, I've never really been unhappy with the 4 cylinder slightly sluggish performance of my automatic brick. It seems to handle fine, since I keep up with traffic on all but the steepest hills here in congested northern Ca. and I can't afford speeding tickets very often. Also is $8900 fair for this car? The only thing of any concern I've seen is some dark stains underneath about where the transmission is but no new wet fluid there.
The same dealer also has '98 V70 123k miles for around 9000. I guess the two are mechanically very similar?

Going from a 1980 245 to a 96 850, it sounds like I made the same type of move you're thinking about. I too was concerned with the maintiance differences between the 240 and newer transverse Volvos. I wasn't convinced they were of the same mechanical quality as the RWD Volvos. Although I haven't had a long history with an 850, I can tell you that based on my research, I'm convinced that the core drivetrain is as good as the redblock 4 cyl Volvos. There are many people on this board that own early 850's with several hundred thousand miles, and I haven't heard of these 5 cyl engines developing manjor chronic issues like blown head gaskets or leaking piston rings. Based on what I've learned, I'm expecting the same type of unique Volvo experience from my 850 as I did from my 240. Meaning, a slightly quirky, well built car, with minor electrical and cosmetic issues but not with major mechanical problems. The 240's have a history of being drivetrain solid, but electrically and cosmeticaly weaker. I think for the most part, my 850 will be the same way. Moral of the story, a Volvo is a car you need to love to keep an eye on. It isn't a drive it and forget it Toyota, but with a little care and maintiance, you'll get a reliable and higher quality car.

The other unexpected pleasure regarding my upgrade is the increase in performance I got going to an 850, which isn't even turbo charged. I wasn't a big fan of a FWD, but after getting used to the heavier front end, and slight understeer, I find it to be a pleasure. After driving my 245 for years, getting behind the wheel of a 5 spd 850 is like getting into a rocket. The power is substantial, the transmission well suited to the powercurve, and the engine is comfortly torquey, even at low RPM's. The power and handling feels very refined, and unless you heavily upgraded your 240 suspension, the cornering abilities will be very much better. Driving this car is a wonderful pleasure. It feels like a perfect upgrade for me; a faster, smoother, more refined and quiet ride, but clearly still a Volvo from bumper to bumper. I didn't think I could love another car like my trusty 240, but with enough time, I can imagine loving this 850 just as much.

That all sounds pretty comforting. Do you think I'll have to mostly forget about working on the 850 myself? It looks so different under the hood, I couldn't even identify half the stuff there. I don't earn as much per hour as mechanics do, so it would be worth my time to learn, but can much of anything even be done by a lay person. My dilemma is if I would be better of to buy the newest ("93) 240 I can find for a third of the $ of this car and just try to keep it going for 10 more years. But there are all those electrical problems....

I did a ton of work on my 240, including conversion from an auto to manual transmission, head gasket, and timing belt. After looking at the 850 engine layout, I wasn't overwhelmed. I think for the most part, work on this car will be largely the same, but some differences. First off, those jobs requiring things like engine mounts and rear main seals will be worse because of the transverse engine. Additionally, the car as a good deal more sensors with the ability to fail. However, it appears that the majority of those sensors are for emissions purposes, and wouldn't leave you stranded on the side of the road if they failed. You'd just have the pesky check engine light and a bit of work tracing the problem. I'm willing to deal with that increased complexity if it means driving a car with an engine that can go 300K miles and with a great deal more ride refinement. That's the give and take I see between the 240 and 850.

Congratulations on a good find at a reasonable price. Let us know how it runs and treats you. Also, I'd be interested to know your opinions of the differences between the 850 and the 245. Many traditionalists love the 240 series, but they are 1960s technology, so presumably automotive engineering has moved on.

Those topics always comes with a lot of enthousiasm :)

To do like everyont else, i will give my thoughts...

I own a '96 5spd turbo sedan (turbo manuals were sold here in Canada)

It was fairly difficult to find a manual here, i would say one out of 5 850s here is MT.

The car I had before was a 1989 240.

For the differences, the first one is the front wheel drive. I personnaly prefer RWD and still miss the 240 for that. Also, the turn radius is bigger with the 850 since the engine is transversally mounted. I would say the 850 feel more 'japanish' than the 240. On the good side, the drivetrain seems to be reliable, maybe not as much than the old red blocks but it copes well with time.

The 850 is less prone to rust.

Oh yes and the A/T have a tendency to overheat. Check for a smelly A/T dipstick. Any repair near the transmission (tranny replacement, rear main seal, clutch...) will be costy since you need to drop the subframe to separate the tranny from the engine.

Everything around the automatic climate control can give you a headache if it fails. Like everyone told you, check for the A/C, they usually go bad after 4-5 years.

Finally, the 850 is a more complicated car to repair than the 240. But its more refined. It's sad they did not design it with RWD :)

good luck!

JP

My two cents: the non-turbo would be a drag with an automatic transmission. Sure it's got about the same power to weight ratio as a turbo RWD Volvo... but its torque curve is nowhere near as flat.

IMO the shifter is much nicer than the M46, but 5th feels a bit far away. The interior on the S70/V70 is much improved over the 850 (which is about on par with the early 740s).

I don't think you're stepping down in terms of reliability, considering that the 240s were not very reliable cars, and had sub-par electronics and nightmarish wiring. Self-destructing wiring harness anyone? Around here at least, the 850s are starting to show up with much more frequency in the Pick-n-Pulls.

--
alex

Hi, I've enjoyed this thread and it's very topical for me as I am looking for a first car for my son and have been looking at 850/S70's. Newbie to this board as well.

My son prefers an auto (although he knows how to drive a manual) and all I can seem to find are manual-transmission cars! Well, at least 50% of the ones I've seen have the 5-speed, it seems....

Going to look at a '94 in very good shape cosmetically on Saturday. Has 137k on it and the guy is asking $6k which is certainly way over book, but we need to drive one of these. ;-)

Oh, I owned an '82 Turbo sedan back in the day, 4-speed with electric OD, and I miss those fantastic seats to this day! Also drove a '93 850 as a rental for a few weeks and really liked it.

Dan D
Central NJ USA

The seats in the 850 (and 95+ 960) are very, very nice. I'm not a big fan of how low you sit in an 850 tho. I suspect finding one without a sunroof would allow for a higher seating position tho.

I've heard plenty of praise about the autobox in the 850 (aside from durability issues... perceived or actual), but I still prefer driving a manual transmission. At the very least, the gearing of the M56/59 is far better suited to the engine than the M46/47 gearing to the RWD motors. You can get through the intersection in 1st gear in an 850, something I could never do in my 240 turbos.

I would be hesitant about buying a mostly city driven 850 manual tho, given how labour intensive the clutch replacement is. IMO $6k is a high for a non-turbo 850, or about right for a turbo in good shape (altho a turbo would be quite inappropriate as a first car).

--
alex

Alex, I have to agree with you- even though the 240s may be durable cars, they won't have the solid bulletproof reliability of, say, a mid-90s Isuzu pickup or Dodge Colt Vista.

I've had, in this order: '69 144, '66 122 wagon, '67 122 wagon, '81 Honda Civic wagon. '83 Honda Civic Wagon, '83 245 GLT, and now, since late 2001, a '96 850 wagon. The 245 GLT (non-turbo that year) was the first AT car I owned. As with the 122 wagons, I LOVED the interior space. For performance, it was kind of a dog, and it handled OK, if rahter like a tank compared to the Hondas.

The 850 is a whole different animal. It handles well. It's very comfortable. You can go all day without the noise and buzz of the 240, and still be ready for more. Smallish on the outside, yet surprisingly roomy on the inside. The wheelbase is longer than the 240, which will give you a surprise with parallel parking for awhile. Soon, though, you'll be back into those spaces no one else would attempt.

You can do repairs with the Haynes manual, an OBD II instrument, and the usual tools.

My 850 has been nearly as trouble free as the Hondas. Beware of the AC evaporator $$$$$. I receommend this specifially to be done at the dealer or proven indie. At 165,000 miles, it needs some shock & strut bushings, so I'll probably replace the shocks & struts while it's taken apart. I change oil & filter every 5000 miles, even though the normal schedule is every 10K.

There are some vacuum hoses on the front side of the engine that you need to keep an eye on. Bay13 tells about them. If you replace them yourself, you'll need some creative dexterity.

All in all, I have to say my 850 is the best car I've owned. Don't know what to tell you about 5 spd vs AT, but the 850 does have a sport mode, AND it's easier to hold onto the coffee, phone, map, change sunglasses, and eat breakfast without that pesky shifter. I agree the 5 spd IS much more fun, though.

Do you mind if I ask where you live and what is your intent with the 5spd.


Lee
850 Base 5spd NA Engine
Original owner w/the original A/C that works

Sure. I live in San Diego, California. I want a 5 speed because I really enjoy driving when it also involves shifting gears. It's more to think about while driving, and makes it more fun. I changed out the auto in my 245 just for those advantages. It also helps that I can get more power and better gas mileage out of the same engine. I also feel like it gives me a lot more control over the car, which helps with perfermance and safty.

I agree I love shifting and the Volvo manual trans is bullet proof.

Reason why I asked is because I thought you lived in the south. I was actually thinking of passing my 850 on to someone who appreciated them. This is not a sales pitch but I have owned it since day one and I have done all the maintence on it. It has high miles (202K) I use it for my daily driver. Everything works on it over 44 oil chnges and when anything looked to be going bad it was replaced. I have not yet convinced myself to give him up , it is an emotional bond I have with this car.

The crazy part is that I have a new MB E320 that just sits in the garage I find myself always jumping into the 850 to drive, you can't beat a 5spd, keep looking and keep in touch.

Lee
leesykes@charter.net

Lee,
Where in the south are you? I'm in Knoxville, TN...
Might be interested in your 850. I'm not in a rush...kid turns driving age next year. Email me if you want.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic (125K), 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red (45K), Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon (Sold at 140K and miss her). My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.

MadeInJapan: 1998 S70 T5 . . . sold my 98 V70 T5 not long ago and REALLY MISS HER! Drive a 98 E320 4Matic wagon (possibly the greatest car ever made in my lifetime) everyday and still miss the T5. Let me know when you want to part ways with the T5. I'll take it and let one of my four kids take the E320 to college.

Shadow_Daddy

I am in Louisiana. North of New Orleans in Slidell. The answere is ( it always comes up) No it did not flood and I did not flood ( its a common Katrina question).

I think this car would be great for a a young driver. My daughters when starting to drive were all using Volvo's as their training wheels. MY poor old 240 what they put that car through. I kept them away from the 850.

I really like this car and I have to be up front with you every other hour i change my mind but know that I will eventually have to give him up, ( space and how many cars can you show in your insurance bill ).

Trust me there is no rush if your still looking for a car later for either daughter or son it will be down here. The car is in that grove of dependability that seems to keep on going and I have a keep it up maintenace obsession.

Lee

Lee,


How many miles did you say your '95 850 had?

I have a '96 850 (base sedan) with only 76k miles on it (yes, original mileage). I know, I've probably got a long way to go till I catch up to you. This car has been a New England car its whole life, and the reason the mileage is very low is that it has not been exposed to snow or salt during the winters. It always stays under a cover in a heated garage from November until late March. I probably will keep the 850 for the rest of my life.

Juan,

Your 850 5spd is just a baby with 76K. I have 203K on my base 5 spd and it drives beautifly. The way it sounds in keeping yours out of the elements ( winter)and do the maintence on it you may want to start planing where your going to put your wheel chair or walker on it for your use.

The car has been amazing. What I did not mention is that I have a new MB E320 that sits and sits and sits in the garage i would rather drive the Volvo, with a manual.

Lee

Well I appreciate the consideration Lee. Too bad I don't live in the South, I would have loved for you to at least take me on a ride!

I too am having difficulty thinking of letting go of my beloved 245. I know that when I eventually do, I'll be looking long and hard for a fellow lover that will appreciate her.

A lot of good advice has been offered up. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm inclined to add to it.

In comparing the 240 vs. 850, I didn't see any mention of Rust. Having spent my fair share of time in/under a 240 to cut out, paint and replace floor and rocker panels, I appreciate that after 12 years there is not a bit of rust on the body of my 850. Also, the original exhaust shows no signs of giving up after 150K+ miles. We sold my wife's '94 850 with over 200K miles on the original exhaust. Something to consider when pondering the added maintenance cost of an 850.

I've driven both manual and slushbox 240s and yeah, 240 automatics are a drag. The manual tranny is nice to have when dealing with the modest power of the 240 engine. This isn't the case with the 850. With more power and a more refined automatic box, in my (humble) opinion, the 850 auto is pretty darn nice. My daily driver is a 5-spd 850, which I enjoy, but the performance/economy gains are little over the autobox.

Good luck finding a nice 850.

--Will

The 850's are great cars but more complex animals than the 2-700 series. They have some expensive problems (A/C evaporator, rear main seal) that will set you back big $$$$$. I'd agree with the other poster that they are not the best car if you have limited funds. As for reliability, we've owned a 240, 740 and a 850. The 240 and 740 left me hitch hiking once and the 850 none so far.

as others have said, the 850 is an expensive car to fix and maintain. it is a lot of fun when it is running well, but expect it to breakdown at least once a year. by now you must have heard of all the primary problems - the A/C, oil leaks, fuel pumps, air pumps, the brakes that always make noise, etc... . the main problem is that unless you can do the work yourself these repairs will eat you alive. I spend at least $1000 a year on repairs and maintenance and i ignore minor problems. my suggestion? get a honda with a stick shift.

I speak from recently having made the same switch. I had a beloved 1982 245 manual for several years, and it was finally a real beauty. I pretty much had nothing left to fix! I then stumbled across a gorgeous '95 Yellow 850 T5R (only about 150 of which were ever imported). It was an automatic, but I didn't care--it was gorgeous and the price was right. Eventually I discovered it had a salvage title, so I walked away. Nevertheless, after having driven it, I was hooked--I had to get an 850.

As Bill said, there are no factory 850 turbos with manual trannies (called M56's, by the way) in the US, unless brought in from Canada. Swapping manuals into turbo cars is becoming more popular, and can be done (if you have enough skill to replace an 850 clutch, you can probably pull off the whole swap). I eventually bit the bullet and decided I'd rather get a turbo than a N/A with a stick, so I ended up with a nice 850 turbo wagon for $3000.

That said, if you have 8 grand for this car, you really should be looking at 98 S70's and V70's. They're entirely the same as the 850's, except for the interior, minor styling changes, and the name. The drivetrains are identical. In '99 the engine management system changed. Many feel the 99- as less desireable. PLUS, for '98 (and later) volvo offered the T5 (high pressure turbo) models with the M56. The 98 V70 T5 stick is very rare, but apparently Bill has one (read: I'm jealous). The S70 T5 stick (the sedan) is also rare, but easier to find. If you don't mind having a sedan, this is what you should be looking for. Low-pressure turbo S70s (GLT's) are also available with the M56. Take your time and wait for the right car. You should be able to get a nice one with less than 100,000 on it for 8k or less.

Looking back on 240 vs. 850, it's hard to compare. It's apples and oranges. Some things I loved about the 240, but there are other things where the 850 shines. Borrow someone's 850/S70/V70 if you can, and see if you really like it.

Didn't think my post would be this long, but thanks for reading!

Thanks for the thoughts, they helped. I dreamed of a V70 of 850 T5 with stick, but convinced myself it wouldn't be possible. However, your suggestion of a tranny swap sounds interesting. I actually changed my 245 from an auto to manual in a weekend with a wrecked 83 244 for spare parts. I'm fairly mechanically inclined and thought the swap wasn't too bad. I also assumed that the transverse nature of the 850 would make a swap in that car nearly impossible. How difficult is the job, and where would I even find a manual transmission and petal assembly to put in, given the rare nature of them in the US?

I'm also have a few questions regarding the high and low pressure varients of the T5's on the the V70 and S70's. Does one develop signifigantly more power than the other, and are there any increased reliability issues with one versus the other? How can I tell them apart looking at ads?

Over at Swedespeed keep checking the classifieds. There is a guy who goes by the handle of "JRL" who is a used car dealer and goes to the auctions. When a nice manual-transmission turbo comes along, he often buys it. He's not cheap but his cars are nice. I've looked at a couple of his before finally buying my daughter an Accord.

Also, check e-bay. Dealers have as much trouble selling the 5-speeds as the cultists have finding them, and they sometimes put them on e-bay or just auction them.

For the conversions, search over at Volvospeed. Electronically and mechanically, the '96 and '97 850 and the '98 SV70 are very similar, even thouh the '98s have the later body. I also "believe" that all the cars -- turbos AND naturally aspirated -- have the same manual transmissison (and pedal cluster, etc). But I could be wrong. The ECU could be a challenge for a MT 850 conversion, but I believe it's been done.

-BTC

There were no 850 turbos with manual transmissions officially imported into the US, althought some were unofficially imported from Canada and some have been converted here from AT cars. They are rare birds in any case. Try posting your questions over at the Volvospeed and Swedespeed boards, too, a lot of the guys have manual SVC 70s, they're a cult car of sorts.

I'd hesitate to recommend ANY FWD Volvo to someone on a budget, a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry is probably a better choice from the maintenance $$$ perspective. But if you have the money to burn, good luck!

-BTC

'98 V70 T5 5-speed manual, 170k mi, front IPD stabilizer bar, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, Bilstein HD, XC grill, C70 jewel E-Codes, V-1, Lidatek, Mobil-1 since new.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."-Douglas Noel Adams (1952-2001)

There were 850 turbos with a 5 speed manual for sale in the US starting in 1995, although it may have been sedan only. I remember seeing one at a Bay Area Volvo dealer in late summer of 1994, and it was not an import from Canada. I'll see if I can find any documentation to support my memory. Also, the light pressure turbo 850/S70/V70 (GLT as opposed to T5, not to be confused with the earlier non-turbo 850GLT) was never offered with a manual in the US.

Zack
1980 245DL M46 283k
1988 745T+ M46 215k

I'm still trying to decern how much worse the FWD Volvo's are compared to the older RWD. I understand European cars require more care than their Japanese counterparts, but I also enjoy maintaining a car that requires a little bit more attention. The question really comes down to the expected longevity of the drivetrain given regular care. For instance, I know that if I take good care of my 240, the drivetrain will go 300K or more. Can the 5 cylinder FWD models be expected to last as long with regular care, or will I have to start worrying about blowing head gaskets or leaking piston rings at 150K?

Mine still uses NO oil at 170,000, still has the original clutch and the transmission still shifts like new (notchy when cold). But I've had the car since new, and I'm very anal about maintenance. I have also used Mobil-1 synthetic oil since the first oil change. Will EPO (Evil Previous Owner) of a random used 850 or SVC70 have? Maybe. Probably not.

The drivetrain has been GREAT. But lots, and I mean LOTS of the stuff that's bolted TO the drivetrain has been replaced two, three times. About the only part of the AC system that hasn't been replaced yet is the condenser.

These cars are NOT like the 240s. The 240 was so simple it was silly. And if you neglect the timing belt change on a 240 and it breaks you just have it towed to your mechanic who snarls and replaces the belt. If the same thing happens on a "white motor" Volvo, the valves crash into the pistons and you replace that big silver thing under the hood (the motor). If you like the "red motor" Volvos look for the "ultimate" red motor which was the 1995 1/2 940 Turbo. Slushbox only I'm afraid. Or start looking for a lower mileage 240.

-BTC

'98 V70 T5 5-speed, 170k mi, Bilstein HD, front IPD stabilizer bar, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, XC grill, C70 jewel E-Codes, V-1, Lidatek, Mobil-1 since new.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."-Douglas Noel Adams (1952-2001)

Let me step out on a limb here: if you neglect the timing belt change to the point that it breaks, you're a moron. I wouldn't want to buy a 240 from someone who neglected something so critical in much the same way that I wouldn't want to buy ANY car from someone who ignored the timing belt. For the most part, timing belts don't spontaneously break. There's a prescribed schedule, if you adhere to it, you'll be fine.

Yes, the FWD cars are more complex, but they're still much more servicable than similar-era Japanese boxes. Some things are more difficult to service (some suspension stuff, some engine related stuff like the clutch), and some things are much easier (just about anything on the HVAC system) than on a 240.

--
alex

I have owned both 240's and 850's.

I always thought you could get a standard tranny in an 850 but they are rarer in North American than england and the rest of the world.
But i shall leave that to people who actually own them and can report back.

All i will say is the 240 and 850 are different cars and i would not compare them.

the 240 is very dependable, mechanically bulletproof, easy to fix, but it is an older car which never really handled well compared to most cars. It was also very forgiving to owners who try self repairs. Many cars of the vintage get rusty too (dont get me wrong they are better than most domestics half its age).


The 850 is more sophisticated in style and performance, but it can cost a lot to fix if you depend on a dealer.

Even if you fix it yourself you could get caught with major expenses like fuel pumps and relays, sensors and some irritating interior trim issues. Again these 850's like most volvos are engineered to last a lot longer than the domestic car, but at the same time you have to consider they are older cars.

I would aim for the 87 850 which is supposed to be the best the car ever was.. in its last year of production. The 70 series 98 up was pretty good too and is even better in overall looks.

My parents went from a 1980 245DL M46 to a 1993 850 5-speed...some observations. The AC system (evaporator) will fail at some point on the 850 and it's like the blower motor job on the 245...replacing the clutch is a much more expensive job on the 850 (or more difficult than a 240 if DIY). Watch out for failed power seat mechanisms on the 850, failed upper engine mount, and excessive oil consumption (the 1993 850s have much needed low oil level light). The 850 is much quieter, gets better MPG, is very comfortable, but has a very different feel than the 245 - the shifter feels worse, the handling is good but some (including me) might argue it's less sporty than a well set up 245, and the non-turbo motors need to be revved to make much power.

850 non-turbo sedans (1993-1997) were offered with a 5-speed, non-turbo 850 wagons were offered with a 5-speed (1994-1997)...no manual transmission was offered for the turbo sedan/wagon in 1994 in the US. I think starting in 1995 you could get an 850 turbo sedan with a manual, which continued with the S70 T5 in 1998. Not sure about the 850 turbo wagon though, but I'm pretty sure Volvo sold the V70 T5 with a 5-speed at some time between 1998-2000 (good luck finding one of those). Manual non-turbo 850/S70/V70 show up on e-bay fairly often.

Zack
1980 245DL M46 283k
1988 745T+ M46 215k

I have a 95 850 Wagon 5 speed 220,000 (original clutch)
99 S70 5 speed 165,000 (original clutch)
2001 V70 T5 5 speed, (75,000)

Two of these cars I bought on eBay, one, the 99' S70 I bought new with the 5 speed. Unfortunately, as has been noted most American's are brain dead when it comes to driving so manuals are tough to find, but eBay seems to be a great outlet for them.

I can't imagine driving a slush box, they simply suck. The durability, simplicity and increased fuel economy and fun of a stick make it a no brainer in my book.

Good luck in your search.

P.S. Both the S70 and 850 have been bullet proof requiring little more than regular maint. and oil changes. The T5 has been a bit more expensive to maint. but not excessive and given the power well worth it!

John.

John, you wrote, "I can't imagine driving a slush box, they simply suck" I would have stated it less politely than you did.

Here in the South (Mississippi, LA, GA, etc.), manual transmission Volvos are incredibly rare. I ordered my 99 V70, but many people, including mechanics, have told me they did not know that you could even buy a manual Volvo (what did they think normal people around the world drive?). As I recall, in 1999, the V70 normally-aspirated car was available with 5-spd, like mine, and so was the high-pressure turbo. The low-pressure was only automatic. Mine has been flawless mechanically, and I never even had the ETM problem. But, this car is still only 60,000 miles old, so I can't predict its future cost of ownership. Good luck with the search.

Hey John,


Are you the same gentleman I met who lives in New Hampshire and also has a '73 1800ES? If so, I think I got the hint with your post about owning Volvos which are all 5-speeds.

I still have my '96 850 sedan- the one I showed up in Sunapee in the summer of '05- has 76k on it at the moment, but it is currently in storage at my house in VT, as I decided not to take it with me when I moved down to DC to attend graduate school. It definitely wouldn't have survived one whole day in the capital.