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Suddenly last week oil began dripping on to my garage floor. I jacked the car up and found it coming from a notch between the oil pan and the transmission housing. I immedialtel cleaned my Flame trap which was clear. It still continues to drop 6-10 drops of oil when the car is at rest. The car has 140k
and runs well. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks
850-1994 and S80-2002
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posted by
someone claiming to be ksg
on
Mon Dec 18 06:41 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Before concluding it's a rear main seal leaking, check that the oil isn't running down from higher up, like camshaft seals or under sparkplug wire cover. You need to assure the entire crankcase vent system is in top shape - many people have reported big oil losses when it wasn't. Otherwise replacing whatever seal is leaking will just have to be done again.
Twice on 2 different Volvos with bad crankcase ventilation I have had the seal that went be a camshaft seal, not a main seal. They can go from not significant to major leak very suddenly (hours to days). If I found a marginal seal before a major trip I would replace it first.
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Sounds like the location that leaks when you have a bad rear main seal. If this is the case, get ready for a close to $grand repair bill.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic (125K), 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red (45K), Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon (Sold at 140K and miss her). My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.
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Thanks for the input. Im wondering why it became so severe all of a sudden?
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If you have a clean flame trap, then you possibly have a clogged oil separator or vacuum line or both. To replace or clean the separator, you will need to remove the intake manifold.
The longer you wait, the worse the leak will get. Removing any clogs does not mean the rear main seal will heal itself, just put off the inevvitable.
Klaus
--
1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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Thanks KlausC,
Could you tell me more about the oil seperator, where it is located and is it attached to the black plastic tube that feeds into the flame trap? What is its purpose? The vacuum line you speak of is it the one form the Flame trap to the vacuum tree? I took off the oil filler cap with engine running and there was no appreciable blowby. This engine non turbo only uses a quart of oil in 3k miles normally.
Thanks Leo
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The oil separator is between the block and the intake manifold, it is a black rectangular box. I have no idea to its function on modern engines except to vent the crankcase of oil fumes. There is also a line from it to the top of the engine, next to the filler cap. This particular line can also get clogged.
Definitely check for a source of your oil leak farther up the block.
Klaus
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1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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Klaus,
I think on my S60 it's at the back of the engine, underneath. I wondered what it was, now I have an idea.
Any advice on servicing the PCV system on newer 5 cylinders?
Thanks,
Albert.
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Just to keep the vauum lines clean every 40,000Km and change the oil regularly.
Klaus
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1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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Thanks KlausC,
I located the black plastic box under the intake manifold two hoses seem to come out of it. One to the flame trap and one to the head assembly. I rechecked the flame trap assembly and vacuum hose. Takeing off the filler cap
I could blow easily into the flame trap hose and even suck air out of the crankcase. With the filler cap on I could not. The vacuum hose was clear also.
Venting of the head which I assume is the hose next to the filler cap is also vented down into the block for oil changes. I dont know where to go from here.
Thanks for your help
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Just make sure that all of the hoses are in good shape (have not become hard plastic) and clear including the different places they connect to. Sometimes the hoses are clear but the "nipples" that they connect to are blocked. This is especially true on a turbo model which has a PCV nipple at the base of the air intake hose to the turbo. If yours isn't a turbo, one of the lines still connects to or close to the throttle to put the exhaust back into the engine to be burnt again. Other bad spots are the very short but fatty hoses that are butted up against the block from the oil separator. Make sure these are clear too. If all is good, clean your throttle, use new gaskets for it and the intake manifold and put it all back together.
--
1998 S70 T5 Emarald Green Metallic (125K), 2004 V70 2.5T Ruby Red (45K), Previous Owner of Black '94 850 Turbo Wagon (Sold at 140K and miss her). My cars have been running so well lately they've got me worried.
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Thanks for the advice, you guys are great.
I went over all the plastic vacuum lines again and they and the rubber elbows all seem to be ok. Replaced the oil with 10w-40w grade from 10-30 thinking maybe a little more vescosity would do the trick but the drip pattern on newspaper remains the same. Problem started week ago when the car would not start while cranking with good spark and fuel pressere. No trouble codes recorded in diagnostic. Car towed to independent shop and they got it running by cleaning my platinum bosh plugs and squirting oil into the cylinders. They said they held the gas peddle all the way to the floor to give it more air and the car started after a while. They ckecked all maintenance items and could not find any reason why car would not start. Several days when I got car back I noticed this oil leaking. Ive replaced flame traps, vacuum rubber elbows and cleaned my throttle body almost yearly. If anything I over maintenance my volvos since ive owned 10 used ones since 1970. Yes i could bite the bullet and have a new main rear seal replaced but am still holding out hope of a cheaper fix. Pulling the intake manifold is above my physical ability. Thanks for reading my dilemma. Any tips would be appreciated. Leo
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I feel your pain. I did the flame trap, vapor canister & hose replacement this past summer when I started seeing the drip patterns on the garage floor. Even switched back to dino oil from synthetic all to no avail. Then a week before Thanksgiving the wife pulled out and it was leaving a trail of oil so I took it out of service right then. If there was anything good about my situation is was that I pulled the engine without pulling the transmission or dropping subframe as the Haynes book recommends.
Did the timing belt/tensioner/idler/water pump while it was out. Got it back together this past week and it runs like a top and best of all no leak, knock on wood! My car is a 93 850 A/T with 108,000 miles.
Good luck with your situation and keep us posted.
JR
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John,
Not sure if you will see this, was reading your older posting about pulling your 850 engine to replace the rear engine seal. I did my wife's car a couple of years ago when I had to pull the manual trans to replace the clutch. Am interested in your experience with just pulling the engine as I have picked up a 1995 850 for my daughter and it is looking like a rear seal is in my near future. Any tips on the engine pull would be helpful.
Tim McCabe
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Thanks for your input. The heavier oil has lessened the drip to only the size of a silver dollar. Wife is driveing it around none the less. I will tackle the problem again in the spring. Happy New Year
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I just re-read this thread because someone else butted in with a new problem. Your first post said that this all started when your car wouldn't start, you took it to a garage where they added oil to each cylinder and managed to start the car. When the 5 cylinder engine has no compression, it is because the hydraulic lifters are out of position, and that happens when the engine is started (cold) and turned off before oil pressure can lift the hydraulic lifters. Also known as lawnmower syndrome.
Adding oil to each cylinder increased the compression and pushing the gas peddle to the floor turned off the gas flow. This allows the starter to turn faster, cleaning out the cylinders and creating oil pressure. After a few minutes, the engine will slowly start, the oil pressure comes up, and magically everything works again.
The problem with multiple start attempts is that gas gets washed down the cylinder walls and dilutes the engine oil. On my 164, I estimated close to 4 quarts of gasoline was mixed with the oil. There were multiple attempts at starting over a 4 day period. I had oil leaks everywhere! After changing the oil, twice, the leaks vanished.
So part of your leaking problem could be related to attempting to start the engine. If the leaks decrease, change the oil again and watch for more leaks. Be sure to clean off the engine as good as possible after the oil change so you will know where any leaks are coming from. Also, make at least 1 one hour run with the car to get the engine and tranny nice and warm. Those 10 minute trips are not enough to heat up the gas/oil mix to cause the gas to evaporate through the PCV.
Happy New Year,
Klaus
--
1975 164 w/174,800mi (Sold) 1995 850T w/91,000mi, 1998 V70R w/129,000mi
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Thanks KlausC
I think your diagnotic explanation is totally accurate about the lifters being deflated and the cylinder walls overwashed with fuel and even the oil supply contaminated with fuel. I remember the no start event was preceeded by me the day before, starting the cold car in driveway and moving it 20 feet into the garage and shuting the engine off immediately. Ive read of other links years back where lifter stick or hang up under certain conditions but I did not believe them. Well Im a believer now. Another clue was that the car would crank very slowly like the battery was at half strength. I thought that was strange.
Thanks for all the good work you do contributing your knowledge and time to this forum Leo in Michigan
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