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I think my 850 is broken 850 1995

Last November, I finally could stand it (the excessively hard ride) no longer and I swapped out my car's yellow/HD Bilstein dampers for black/touring Bilstein dampers. I installed the shocks; the struts+alignment(+L.upper.strut.mount+L.CV.boots) was done at the dealer. The car has never been the same (correct) since.

Once I got it out on the open road I noticed that the car didn't track properly; it was a bit like a table with one leg shorter than the others; just trying to go straight I'd make a minor course correction steering input and it would almost feel like the car teetered in response, engendering an unwanted/extra response, which would then require its own correction, and so on. (What a miserable cruise that was...!)

The dealer re-did the alignment (it was way off), which helped the car's ability to track OK (but still not quite the same as before) down the highway. But other symptoms persist:

1. The car is chewing up (feathering, mostly) its [front] tires.

2. The steering has anti-self-centering action once I've turned about 1 lock from straight-ahead: at that point I no longer have to apply force to increase steering angle; instead, I have to apply force to keep the steering from increasing steering angle on its own!

3. In a ([very] low speed) parking lot situation, when I'm turning, I can commonly feel the car take little sideways steps as it moves forward. To me, this indicates that the 2 slightly-different arcs described by the front wheels are no longer in complete harmony. At higher speeds, it's tougher to tell, but that seems to also be the case.

IOW, what I'm sensing is that the steering geometry (the designed-in angles of the suspension/steering parts which cause the wheels to turn at slightly different steering rates, to account for the slightly different turning radii between inner and outer wheels in a turn) is messed up (either wrong or just not remaining constant/correct during use).

Any/all insights/advice will be appreciated. What could cause such sypmtoms? TIA

It was a tough call determining that the old 850 was even worth putting new struts (+ inst cost) on it; now it seems like that decision, for whatever reason, has effectively killed the car, at least in terms of it still being a good car (and just as the ride 'quality' finally became tolerable).

- Dave; '95 854T, 191K mi









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    I think my 850 is broken 850 1995

    Thanks for all the replies.

    Yes, Colorado Springs is [still] correct. The dealer, Bob Penkhus Volvo[-Mazda] has (well, had) done excellent alignments throughout the life of this car (which spans more than one alignment rack there). But on my Mazda (my previous car), their service manager there (many service managers ago, back in the 1980s) did deny me warranty coverage because he felt that causing an intentional cross-camber alignment condition (because 1 alignment was covered under warranty) could offset the symptoms of a power steering rack which had power assistance in only one direction. That fiasco got properly handled only following the installation of a newer/better/different service manager...

    Installing the left mount/boots brought the car back into balance, the rights having been done on separate occasions as needed over the previous several years. When the more compliant struts were installed last November, the original left upper strut mount was still nowhere near needing replacing, though it did sport a tiny old-age crack or three.

    Worn parts undoubtedly exist throughout the suspension, but the steering was day-and-night different (incl effort and [anti-]self-centering) before/after the November service (struts, boots, mounts, alignment). It's stayed different, too. Right now what I'm sensing is worse, but this is following the most spirited, er, diagnosing I've done with the summer tires mounted since then, and they're significantly feathered now, so what I feel from the driver's seat is more pronounced...

    Yeah, the Ackerman angles are (supposed to be) built in, but the positioning of the front spindles/hubs/wheels is apparently no longer being precisely and correctly maintained while turning. I's almost like I can feel my precious tires graining in one turn if I dare explore any part of the performance envelope, but that's probably 'just' the feathering.

    I'll get out a tape measure (I've never tried that; toe was way off after the 1st alignment following strut repl, but that was attended to, and tracking and mpg improved afterwards). Bilstein's Scott McDonald (East location) was thinking along the lines of loose steering rack or crushed control arm bushing or even if the nut was not tight on the spline (that one both scares and resonates with me). IOW, something which permitted some locator of the front wheel's precise position and thus steering geometry/angle to slide along some axis. Given the sideways component to how the steered wheels bite in a parking lot situation, that tends to ring true to me. (If wheels were to slide/move farther apart [an increase in track width] and they're steered from behind, that'll cause a toe-out condition, right?)

    I guess I'm of the opinion that focusing on readings/settings while stationary on an alignment rack is probably a bit of a distraction, if some floppy imprecise variable alignment when turning is but a symptom of some cricical component's extreme slop/variability in placement while under load during use. When the alignment rack, during routine calibration/setup, tells the operator to turn the wheels, are the Ackerman angles being closely checked? If they are, could the operator/technician simply ignore any such indication and proceed with the alignment as if everything was fine when, in fact, the machine already knew (and had tried to tell him) it was not?









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    I think my 850 is broken 850 1995

    I would get the alignment checked and redone by a different shop. Anyone can buy an alignment setup for their shop but not all shops employ technicians who have the understanding to do the job properly.

    Some of the symptoms you have may also be due to damaged or worn ball joints, tie rod ends, control arm bushings, etc. Don't know how many miles you've driven since replacing the struts but it seems something may have gone wrong meanwhile even if these parts might have checked out ok back then.








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    I think my 850 is broken 850 1995

    #2 on your list says to me that the tires are toed-out, which would cause the car to wander on the road and not self center. Quick and dirty way to check that is to measure the distance between two known points on the tire or wheel at the front side of the tire (a tape measure will do). Say like the lip of the wheel or the center of the tire's tread. Then take the same measurement at the back side of the wheel. The distance between the same points should be a small fraction of an inch shorter in the front (toed-in). Do this with the car on the ground.

    What you are describing in #3 is called Ackerman geometry. It is not adjustable. I believe the only way to change it would be to lengthen or shorten the steering arm, which, as you know, is cast in as part of the hub assembly. Badly out of spec toe adjustment might cause the scrubbing you are describing. At that point you ought to be able to just see it with your eye, unlikely that it's that bad.

    Check or have the toe checked. If toe is within spec then the symptoms you are describing I think are out the bounds of what is normally adjustable. That suggests to me that some component is either badly worn out/broken or a new part is out of spec.

    I second the motion to have someone competent (a race shop or highly reputable shop) align the car.

    Whatever you do, do it soon.

    Will
    850 / Mini








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    I think my 850 is broken 850 1995

    If you are in colorado springs, as the pic indicates, you should know better than to go to any car dealer. It sounds like someone really screwed up the front end. And only ONE strut mount? I prefer doing those in tandum, just to keep both sides equal.

    Klaus








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    I think my 850 is broken 850 1995

    My best guess would be a screwy dealer alignment coupled with worn suspension parts. They've probably got some parameter so far out of whack the alignment computer thinks it's in spec. Do you have a race tire/alignment shop nearby? I use a nearby Porsche race shop (which seems to work on a lot of Volvos, both the nearby Volvo dealers are hopeless.) If they can make a 911 track true at Daytona, making a Volvo track on the Parkway should be a piece of cake.

    When I did my struts, I replaced both strut mounts. (I heard that Volvo's rear shock mounts are pretty good and I didn't replace them so a few months later of course I had a shock come through the trunk floor when the mount fell apart.)

    If the AC is cool, and the engine's not pumping oil, I wouldn't give up on it yet. Just think, you're saving $1049 every month ($5,598.00 due at signing) you can put off leasing a 750i!

    -BTC

    '98 V70 T5 5-speed, 172k mi, heated velour cloth comfy chairs, factory HD suspension, Bilstein HD, front IPD stabilizer bar, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, XC grill, C70 jewel E-Codes, V-1, Lidatek, IPD stuff, JB Weld, Duck tape, zip ties, Mobil-1 since new.

    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." - Douglas Noel Adams (1952 - 2001)







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