Hello folks. Klaus has suggested my slow starting problem could be similar to the one he had where the Fuel Pump Regulator leaked gas down the vacuum line.

In looking at the archives, I see where someone said in their experience FPRs last 150K-250K miles. I have 182K on my car.

My question is, do you think I can I disconnect the vacuum connection to the FPR and find fuel or a fuel odor, indicitive of the diaphram failing? I haven't gotten in there yet, but I assume I can break this connnection.

If I need to check the pressure, I will probably go to my indy. It would be nice to save the trip and $, but he has to eat also.

Thanks. Don '95 854T 182K

I had some starting issues when I reached 140k miles on my 1994 850 NA.

I replaced the fuel pressure regulator and the problem was solved. However, sometime after the replacement, I decided to take a more careful inspection on the old part which I had kept in my tool box. When I picked it up, it dropped to the floor and on the spot it hit the floor there was some black powder. I then knocked it on the floor in a careful fashion and saw that the black powder kept coming out from the vacumm side. I picked up a can of intake cleaner and sprayed thru the vacumm port until it filled up completely. I let it stand for several minutes, and then turned it upside down to drain. The liquid that came out was black. I repeated the process several times, on both sides.The fuel side was relatively clean compared to the vacumm side. A few days after this I improvised a vacumm testing device: a 100cc plastic surgical siringe and a piece of rubber hose. I attached it to the vacumm side and tested by pulling the plunger in the siringe. I could not detect any leaks. So I kept the part.

A couple of weeks ago, I did a complete PCV job and in the process, I ttok out the fuel rail. I took out the pressure regulator I had instaled at 140k, ( now 178k miles). Put the old one in as I assumed the other one also needed a clean out. Worked perfectly.

What I learned from this and want to share with you guys is that the FPR gets dirty on the vacumm side, and so much gunk accumulates in there that it may malfunction. Perhaps the vacumm is not powerful enough to pull the diaphragm against the accumulated gunk. Not necesarily because it has sprung a leak.

Icelandic

Good stuff. Something else to look for. Thanks for this advice. Don

The vacuum line just pops off the back of the FPR. It's not hard to get to, just hidden from view (on a non-turbo car). I'm doubtful that you'll be able to detect fuel at the FPR vacuum connection -at least not conclusively- just because of all the other smells going on under the hood. Certainly worth a shot though.

When I replaced a FPR on a '94 850 (@~200K miles), I can't recall sniffing the vacuum side. Checking the fuel pressure was what made me cough up the something like $130 for the new one. It was building slowly up to 80psi, dropping quickly to 20psi, then back up to 80psi...

There's a schrader valve on the left end of the fuel rail to check that pressure. I bought a guage at Autozone for about $45. It's not messy and now I have one for the next time.

If you do replace the FPR, make sure you have new hose clamps if you need them and take a look at the rubber part of the fuel line right there. Mine was cracked and worn on the bottom. Well worth the ~$1 to replace it. Also, as you probably know, you need to pull the fuel rail at the time to the injectors come out. I chose not to replace any injector seals/o-rings.

Good luck,
Will
850 / Mini

Will - thanks for this info. I did see the schrader valve, and now I know what it is for (duh). Still don't know if I will test it. The FPR has never been replaced, I may just buy one. But reading the other response, it may be it could be cleaned. I guess if I were trying that I should get into the pressure testing business. Sigh.

I have one question about your post, and it shows my ignorance:

"[...]you need to pull the fuel rail at the time to the injectors come out"

Does this mean, that if I pull the fuel rail the injectors have to come out? I guess if I look elsewhere I can find an answer to this, but I was wondering what you meant here. It sounds like you were pointing out something I should know or look out for.

Thanks again. Don

Sorry, that sentence doesn't make sense the way it is written. I will try to edit it.

To get the FPR out, the fuel rail needs pulled (assuming the FPR in your '95 turbo is in the same position as my '94 and '95 normally aspirated cars -I believe the later S/V70 cars are different). As I recall, besides the fuel hose(s), you need to remove the two bolts holding the aluminum cover first. Then it pulls up and out. It won't want to come because of the injector o-rings. In my case, four injectors popped out with the fuel rail, and one stayed in the head, coming free from the rail. In hindsight, I probably should have tried to carefully loosen them one at a time. It's really not so bad. The worrying part was trying to keep these things clean and free of dirt.

--Will
850 / Mini

Thanks again Will. I looked at it in the meantime and saw most of what you describe.

Two questions: do I relieve the fuel pressure before disconnecting that nut on the fuel feed? Second, might I need O-rings for the injectors, or do you think they should be alright?

Don

I found that there wasn't enough residual pressure to amount to anything -no fuel spraying or such things. It's easy enough to make sure by depressing the schrader valve at the end of the rail. Have a couple rags handy to catch the fuel that dribbles out of the fuel line/rail.

I'm not one to replace anything unless it's really needed, so I was inclined to take my chances with reusing the injector seals and o-rings. After 12 years and 200K miles they all came out looking clean and weren't cracked or brittle. Others may disagree on principle and say they should be replaced. I wanted to get them back in ASAP minimize the chances of me mucking them up with dirt/grease.

-Will
850 / Mini

I know others may differ in opinions, but yours sounds ok to me. There is quite a bit to the recommended procedure, or maybe it simply looked that way to me. Under the car, fuel recovery devices and such. I guess the procedure keeps the environment, hands and floor clean. I suppose I'll wait a day or so in the hopes it will decrease a bit.

My guess was the seals should be ok. I am going to go for that. I now have a backup vehicle just in case.

Thanks again. And I'll post another thank you to Klaus for the suggestion. One more to Icelandic, but I think I'll just buy the valve to expedite things. I'm saving on labor, unless I screw something up. I'll post a followup when done. Don

I have been busy and the BB is no longer sending me email replies, so I forget what I responded to.

I like the post about cleaning the FPR, GREAT news. Mine was leaking gasoline through the vacuum line, so that gasoline pooled in the intake manifold and at start up, a puff of black smoke came out.

If you car sits for an hour or two, there won't be much pressure left. I let mine sit overnight and there was no pressure at all.

Just pull the cover off the injector rail, it pulls toward you. When you put it back, it is a light pressure fit.

The 2 10mm bolts holding the fuel rail on the manifold are aluminum and need only to be snugged up when putting the rail back on. Too much torque and they will snap off (oops)

The injectors will literally fall out when you try to remove the rail. Watch out for the top O rings on the injectors, they can and will fall down behind the intake manifold. I just reused the O rings. Replacements are very hard to find.

Ditto on replacing the old fuel line, just get a new flexible one.
Watch out for the plastic cover over the injector wires, heat causes it to turn to dust when you touch it. I found a junker replacement and wrapped it with electrical tape.

It is not a hard job,

Klaus
--
Please answer your responses. We need to know if the advice is good or bad. The 164 has a new home, all I am left with are 2 turbos :)

Many thanks Klaus and Will. The only hitch I had was I estimated the fuel hose size from the outer diameter at the auto store. Unfortunately I forgot to bring the regulator with me. I guessed 3/8". You guys who have done this know that's too large. I found 5/16" was a snug fit. My newly added backup vehicle was pressed right into service.

In my case, one injector came out, dropping a small amount of carbon into the seal area. Two of the top O-rings stayed in the cover. After studying the situation for 20 seconds or so, I decided I was in good shape.

Exactly as you guys predicted, the fuel line at the feed was frozen to the tube and brittle.

Back together and no leaks. Started right up. I am going to celebrate with a new set of tires. Due to a family situation, I drove long term with my wheels out of alignment. Priorities. Anyway, I cupped my tires, which is the first time that ever happened to me in my life.

Thanks again for letting me know what to expect and making this a painless job.

Don '95 854T 182K

Good to hear!

Thanks for posting back. Nice to know I wasn't talking out of my a** too much...

-Will
850 / Mini