Hey all, just replaced the front pads and took it on a test drive. The brake pedal is very mushy and when braking hard it goes all the way to the floor. What did I miss? TIA

Thank-you to all who provided help!!!!! I looked and reset the pins properly on ALL four tires as per long gone and VOILA! Took her for a road test and by gum and by golly she is braking like a pro again! I couldn't be more happy with this board and with those that provide insight! Thanks again one and all!

Hmmm My post never showed up, I'll try again.
I can't take much credit here as Klaus speculatd correctly in his second post. I only chimed in because I saw that you said the spring was correct in your response to him, but my own experience was that I too beleived I installed the spring correctly but actually hadn't. It's an easy mistake to make (even for an experienced machanic) and with such disheartening consequences. I was looking up master cylinders and kits after trying many of the suggestions I found in these archives when i finally set my ego aside and looked at the S80 brake tutorial that someone posted and saw the note imploring correct spring placement.

All the responses on this reciprrocal board are invaluable and much appreciated as they provide knowledge and hope for those of us who NEED to save on the outrageous cost of dealer repairs.

I have to wonder how many home mechanics (and even indies) who had this very same problem take the car to a dealership in exasperation and pay them off for the simple fix...and of those, how many ended up paying BIG BUCKS when the dealer told them they needed to re-do the entire brake job/masterc cylinder, but actually only re-set the spring?

What brand of brakes did you use. PBR's are much softer than metallic ones. Differnent pads will have a different feel.

What brand of brakes did you use. PBR's are much softer than metallic ones. Differnent pads will have a different feel.

After changing to new pads, which requires that the piston be pushed back to make room, did you notice that the first application of the brakes was like having no brakes? That is because of the brake fluid being forced into the reservoir. You should have had to pump the brakes at least twice to move the calipers into position.

Check the brake lines to make sure you didn't "crack" them open and now have brake fluid all over the place. Check the level of fluid in the reservoir.

Check the bolts for the calipers, they better not be loose.

Klaus
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

Klaus, no fluid all over the place, reservoir is at the right level, caliper bolts back in properly and tight. Pedal just feels real spongy and seems to depress too far. Any other ideas? TIA

Just fishin'... The caliper spring on the outside, did you have trouble getting it back in place? Could it be loose allowing the pads to move apart?

Klaus
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

No problem on the caliper spring. All seems to be well except that the brake pedal is still spongy after driving it once again?

I almost sounds like air got into the lines, but I can see how.

With the engine off, press on the brake a couple of time. It should get hard as a rock. Then, start the car with your foot still on the brake. It should sink about 1 inch or so. Leave your foot at full pressure and see if it sinks at all, it shouldn't. If it does, it is time for a flush and check of master cylinder.

The new pads could also be breaking in, check the rotor for uneven shiney areas.


Klaus
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

Klaus, how do I remove air from the lines, I think that is the cause? TIA

It takes work to get air in the lines. You would have had to loosen the brake line at the caliper or the bleeder nipple. I doubt that you did either.

To remove air from the lines, you will need a can of DOT4 brake fluid and a pump or helper to pump the brakes. The manual system requires a bit of finese because the fluid reservoir can not be allowed to get low.

Take a look at the 700/900 FAQs to learn how to bleed the brake lines.

You did use brake grease on the slide pins after you cleaned them, right?

Klaus
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

10-4 on the slide pins. Can't figure it out, pulled the car out of the garage again this morning and they are still spongy. I pumped the brake pedal twice before turning the car on and on the second pump, it got hard as a rock. I turned the car on, pulled out and spongy again. Does that help diagnose? Thanks again Klaus!

I forgot to ask, what brand of pads did you use? PBR metal master are quite hard and require more effort than OEM, same with ceramic. You may just be having trouble "burning" in the new pads.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedincontents.shtml

The above is a good way to set new pads, but you need an empty road :)

Klaus
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

I did purchase PBR indeed! Is there a place to see how to properly bleed the brakes online with pictures? Anyone? Buelher, Buelher?

Hi Pharmman, I did the brakes on my S80 a few months ago and had the same problem you describe in virtually every detail. I can almost (I say almost) gaurantee you that your problem is that you have the spring on the wrong side of the metal boss on the caliper. I'm a competent mechanic and have replaced probably hundereds of pads and shoes. When I did mine I thought I paid close attention to the way the spring went. I even did one side at a time as always, so i can compare if something doesn't seem right. But it went so "obvious" that I never had to look at the other side (so I thought). Same spongy pedal, etc. I checked and re-checked, used a power bleeder etc. I even was beginning to think I blew a seal in the master when pushed the pistons back. Anyway, I came here or maybe it was another volvo site (but I think it was here) like you, to find if anyone else had a similar problem. Someone gave the URL of an S80 brake how-to with a mention of the spring. The site had photos showing the proper spring installation, and sure enough I had the spring on the wrong side of the boss. I put them on right and the problem was immediately solved.

If I have time and I can find the place with the how-to I'll post it.

Long gone, you are the man! I have them on the inside of the boss instead of the outside! You're right, how obvious, and I missed it! I'm going to change them this morning and I'll write back and let all who have helped know the outcome! TIA

So simple and so easy to miss. Yes, you are not the first one to do this, so don't feel lonely. My 1998 has a simpler spring location with only one fitting that can be achieved.
If the spring goes on too easy it is probably time to replace it with a new one.

Think about flushing your brake fluid anyway. I have a pressure bleeder to make it a one person job.

Klaus
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Volvo-802/Brake-fluid-flushing-bleeding.htm
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

Klaus,
I checked out the link you provided. I noticed he bled the shortest line first and longest last. This is exactly opposite from how I was taught long ago prior to ABS. Do you think it matters? I don't but I sure don't know as much as a lot of other members here. I also noted he was using a 2 man operation (at least it sounded like it). One person to push the pedel and the other to open the bleed nipple. I was also taught to close the nipple at the bottom of the brake stroke, and then allow the assistant to raise the brake pedel. Lately I've been using a mighty vac on my other cars, but I've never done the breaks on my 2001 V70 T5 other than change pads and rotors. I let the dealer do it at the regular service last time. Can you use a vacum to make it a one person operation on Volvo ABS systems? My P1800 also had 2 bleed nipples per caliper if I'm remembering correctly and there was a recommended order that was different than I'd ever done before. Do the newer Volvo's have this or a single one?

Long Gone, great work in solving this!!!

Checksix

Bleed the rear brakes first, either side, then the passenger front followed by the drivers front.
NEVER let the brake fluid go below the minimum mark in the reservoir. That is the hard part. I don't remember seeing more than one bleeder nipple per brake, like the older cars had.
I, personally, do not like the "helper" method. And I prefer the pressure pump to the MightyVac, because then I never have to check the level in the reservoir.


Klaus
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I still miss my 164 and my 854T. Just driving a V70R :)

Hi Pharmman. It took over an hour of searching but I finally found the URLs to the brake replacement tips. It has photos and mentions about making sre the clips are correctly oriented. I found them in a thread where you yourself are posting about the same problem in May (18th-21st) of 2005.

http://members.cox.net/n0v8or/s80_front_pad_replacement.pdf

http://members.cox.net/n0v8or/s80_rear_pad_replacement.pdf

These are for a 2001, which should be similar to your 99. Front and rear designs are similar, so read both files.

You will know if you have the spring on properly, because it takes a lot of strength to coax it into place. I used a big fat screwdriver as a pry tool.

I recommend to wear safety glasses and work gloves in case it slips.