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Hello fellows,
My '86 760 died (almost) this past weekend. Something is very wrong, and I'm not going to fix it.
I have a couple of potential replacements lined up, but they're 'new world' bricks and I don't really know what I'm looking for or what to ask about.
I decided to draw on the collective wisdom of this group to help fortify my decision making process.
Here's all the info I have on the three candidates. Please pass along any info you might have regarding what to look for in visual inspection, what major service items I should look for (for example, I've heard something about the ABS modules on some of these cars?), cost to maintain, common wear/failure items, and any other info you might have to offer.
Car #1
1996 850 Wagon
134000 miles (216000 Kms)
Basically one owner.
Good service records history (haven't seen them though).
Driver's front wheel bearing/hub assembly 2 weeks ago.
The car is pretty much fully loaded with options (except sunroof).
It has leather, heated seats, power evereything.
The Air Conditioning does not work. The compressor turns, but a pressure switch is not closing (maybe needs a refridgerant recharge? Any clues?).
Other than the A/C, everything works and the car runs great. (says the current owner)
There is some rust on the left rear door, but other than that the body is very solid, as are the floors. (says the owner)
Car #2
1996 850 Wagon
250,000km
not much other info
Car #3
1998 V70 AWD Turbo Wagon
Also not much info
came from Virginia.
Described as fully loaded (power windows, sunroof, seats, AC) and rust free.
Thanks. Any advice would be very welcomed, as I don't want to get myself into something unexpected.
I'll post more info on the cars as I get it.
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1986 760 (B230FT) 420k+
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I have a little more info on Cars #1 and #2. I've written off car #3 - I just don't want the hassle of the AWD.
Car #1
Car #1
1996 850 Wagon
134000 miles (216000 Kms)
Basically one owner.
Good service records history (haven't seen them though).
Driver's front wheel bearing/hub assembly 2 weeks ago.
The car is pretty much fully loaded with options (except sunroof).
It has leather, heated seats, power evereything.
The Air Conditioning does not work. The compressor turns, but a pressure switch is not closing. ****UPDATE: it has not worked for about a year - owner suspects it died from not being turned on during last winter. Possible it suffers from EVAP trouble as well****
Other than the A/C, everything works and the car runs great. (says the current owner)
There is some rust on the left rear door, but other than that the body is very solid, as are the floors. (says the owner)
Car #2
1996 850 Wagon
250,000km
cloth seats
**** UPDATE:
A/C has not worked for 3 years - Evaporator is dead
--
1986 760 (B230FT) 420k+
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posted by
someone claiming to be V70driver
on
Tue Aug 26 16:40 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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No. 1 has a broken AC and some rust. Remember the roach in the kitchen? Think this is the only rust?
No. 2 is too old, it's tired already.
No 3 is AWD, don't even think of it.
I suggest you skip all of these. Keep looking, nice Volvos are out there.
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This is probably good advice. I don't think I'll be able to follow it however, as A)my current car is dead and I need a new car right away, and B)I can't afford anything better than what I'm looking at.
I really want a wagon and for the most part I'm willing to overlook the small stuff to get one - though I'm going to start more seriously considering the available sedans after these comments. Maybe I can locate something a little more robust for the same money?
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1986 760 (B230FT) 420k+
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My general rule of thumb is to go with the car that has the most service history; you'll obviously have fewer unknowns. However, the 96 850's AC issue could potentially be very costly. Most everyone here will tell you that the evaporators fail commonly on these models, and when they do, you have the tear the car apart to get to it, very very costly to have someone do. I'd be absolutely certain of the AC problem before price negotiating for the car.
Another absolutely necessary thing on these cars is the timing belt, make certain it's been replaced at the required interval (94-97 850 at 70K miles, V70 at 105K miles I think). If the belt brakes, the engine is an interference design and will destroy itself.
ABS modules do fail, but I think more so on the 850's (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I think it's hard to tell if you don't have the ABS light already on, but fixes for that aren't too bad, and there's someone on this board that actually repairs them for people at a good price. I wouldn't regard that issue as a show stopper.
All the FWD Volvos chew through bushing components pretty quickly on account of all the front end weight, so listening for clunking while driving an unknown car is a good idea. Checking for things in the service records like CV joints and control arm bushing replacements is also good. At 216 Kms, some of that stuff was probably replaced on the 850 if they took care of the car.
I'm a red block to white block convert like you may soon be, and I really like these cars, don't be afraid of them. Their ride comfort and luxury outweigh the increased complexity. Just make sure you get one with service records, or exercise extreme caution on the unknowns, especially the AWD unknowns, as mentioned in the other posts.
Cheers.
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Thank you for the thorough advice sir.
Thanks to you I have looked into this evaporator issue and I see now what a mess it can be. As it turns out, because of your cautioning I questioned the owner of car #2 the 1996 850 wagon and the evaporator is gone and he's been putting the job off (likely due to the cost). This could be an important bargaining tool for me.
I will be sure to get as much service history info as possible, esp re: the timing belt. I usually change the belt right away when I buy a new car anyway. How big of a job is it to change the timing belt on the 850?
Also, speaking of the chassis components/bushings, what kind of job is it for a DIYer like me to tackle some of this stuff? Is it doable?
Speaking as a red-to-white-block-convert, what do you think of this car #4 that I'm looking at (I left it out of the original post as this was a post on the FWD/AWD forum)
1995 940 turbo wagon
314000
reliably rustproofed, decent service records, turbo checked out, synthetic oil, most of its life was in Florida.
Looks great, optioned out, working A/C.
I like the idea of this car too as it is a platform I trust with my life, and I have a lot of experience DIYing with it, and a fair number of newish transferrable parts from my now dead 700.
Would you take on an 'alright' 850 over a really great 940?
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1986 760 (B230FT) 420k+
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It's good to know about the evaporator. To get it replaced by an independent mechanic, think at least $1200. You could also do it yourself for far far less, but plan on a full two days of work to get it all done.
If you've done the belt yourself on the red blocks, just add 50% more time to the job and you have the 850. It's tighter in there due to the transverse mount, so you have to remove a few more things, but the basic job isn't bad. It is, of course, important to pay much more attention to tooth alignment. Misalignment on a red block means it won't start, or will run poorly. Misalignment on a white block means destroyed valves and piston heads.
As for DIYers doing suspension components, I've never felt like they were bad, on the FWD or RWD Volvos. I've occasionally had to bring a control arm to a shop to have a stubborn bushing impacted out, but other then that, if you're moderately experienced, most jobs are totally doable.
The 940 you mentioned also sounds pretty good. A couple things to think about. I know your experience with the 7 series lets you feel more comfortable with these cars, but I wouldn't hesitate to trust my life with my old 850, and newer V70 at least as much as my old 240. In many ways, the FWD are safer, and at the very least, when you're behind the wheel, they feel just as heavy and tank like as any red block. Despite my fears when I converted, they still do feel very much like the same old "Volvo" I learned to trust and love.
That said, your mechanical experience with the 7 series will definitely be an asset with the 9 series, they essentially have the same drive train. I've definitely had a learning curve familiarizing myself with the new layout of the FWD, but it hasn't been horrible.
In terms of choosing between the 940 or 850, I'm going to pretty much stick to my guns on the service record and owner history theme. While I think the FWD have much more to offer in terms of drive performance and ride quality and comfort, I would probably take a really great 940 over an "ok" 850. It will just be up to you to decide how much better the 940 is than the 850. I'd highly suggest driving at least one 850 before sticking with the red blocks. You may find you like the differences enough to either go with the 850, or find another better one. On the other hand, you may find you don't like the FWD changes at all, and sticking with the red block will be easy. Mechanically I think its probably almost a wash. The red blocks may have a slight edge on overall reliability, but I believe both engines are capable of extremely high mileage, and when taken care of, both are excellent cars.
Hope that helps!
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posted by
someone claiming to be bmwguy22
on
Tue Aug 26 05:00 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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Stay away form ANY early AWD Volvo's. You'll be regretting your purchase!
There are problems with either the transfer case, of the transmission, I'm not sure which one. The onyl reputable ones are the post 04's I beleive
..just my .02 cents
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Thanks and Great advice. I did not know this. You've pretty much made my decision on the AWD v70.
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1986 760 (B230FT) 420k+
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I have a 97 850 turbo wagon with 155k miles and a 98 V70 AWD turbo wagon with 165k miles. I bought them well used and neglected, and I have done all work on the 850, mostly suspension (all new control arms, spring seats, struts, strut bearings, and a couple of engine sensors, sourced from junkyards) for less than $500. OTH, the V70 has been to the shop as the wife drives it, and I have spent maybe 4k, including a sizable portion on replacing the rear driveshaft and re-sealing/changing fluid in the bevel gear box more than once...and then the headache of replacing all four tires if you ruin one. Done that twice.
If those are your only options I'd go for the 96 850, but a nicer buy would be a 98 V70 T5 or GLT, without the AWD if not needed. The interior was much improved in my opinion.
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Thank you for your excellent advice. Your comments and those of the previous commenter have turned my stomach on the AWD V70.
You obviously found DIYing the chassis stuff on the 850 to be doable? And not too expensive? I would think spring seats, struts, and strut bearings would be a fairly expensive job...?
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1986 760 (B230FT) 420k+
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Not too expensive, I use eeuroparts.com and fcpgroton for most part needs.
I actually put Monroe Sensatrac struts sourced from PartsAmerica.com on the 855, 100$ for the pair, on for 5k miles, no complaints.
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