car. I won`t say which mfg. because that part is not important. I have owned 5 volovs in 15 years and I can say I will never own another. I have defended the brand too long. My s80 was a the worst quality of any car I have ever seen. It was falling apart around me. I have also bought my wife a small suv of the same brand, she can not believe the difference. The ETM issue was the final straw. The way volvo treated it and the way my volvo dealer in Charlotte treated me. IE, it was all my fault. I guess my point is open your mind like I did and try some other brands. BTW, I still have my 940 in storage...I can part with car, too many stories.

Regards,
Lane

I also bought a German... diesel. But, I just needed 7 seats for adults and I didn't want a minivan.

Don't blame the company for shitty dealer service, blame the dealer. And yourself for not calling VolvoUSA and complaining like heck. Complaining doesn't do any good, but it always makes me feel better :)

I agree with your mechanic friend, 1999-2001 Volvos are a no-no. The S80 has soooo many new unproven electronics, and the dealers don't know how to fix them. I will probably never buy a "new" Volvo again, not because of engine problems but QA electronics.
I don't like automatic wipers, headlights, etc. They just break.

Klaus
--
The more I learn, the more I forget. So why learn?

Having said that, Klaus, what is the one model Volvo (configured the way you'd recommend--and since it isn't one that carries 7 full sized adults we can probably eliminated the V8 engines) that you think Volvo got right?

Any year Volvo wagon until the P2 model (2001). Ample room for anything in the rear, low enough to leave a car top carrier mounted while in a normal sized garage, and multiple engine sizes to satisfy everyone.
I am including the 122, 145, 245, 745, 945, 850, and V70. I am not including the 765 or 965 because of their thirsty engines and extra weight. I am also not a proponant of the 3rd seat, just because it faces to the rear and is for small children only.
The newer P2 models have smaller rear openings and less storage room. The lack of engine choices for the new cars has me bummed, along with the lack of a manual transmission.
Given my preferences, I would like to see Volvo develope an electric wagon with an onboard diesel generator, 1 electric motor at each wheel, simplified electronics, a return to a square rear hatch, and lots of window area for 360 degree visibility. A hood that can be seen from the driver's seat would be a bonus along with a turning circle under 35 feet. I would also like a rearview camera that is part of a tow package, so I can line up the hitch without help.
Get rid of the automatic wipers and give me the good old Japanese variable wiper control. Please give us the complete Euro light package, we would also like to see at night. And stop computerizing every electrical function of the car, it is not needed and impossible to fix.

Klaus
--
The more I learn, the more I forget. So why learn?

One of the german manufactures is not serious about having parts available for their 20 year old cars. Some of the others are very good about having parts available for their survivor cars.

I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your new car, whatever german make it is.

I think though that you should consider the comparison you're making. Unless you bought a VW (which I'm doubting, because they have their own spotty reliability record esp wrt electronics/electrics lately) you bought something worth significantly more money than a Volvo.

I'm not denying that you had problems with your last brick, and many of us have problems with ours too.

But my impression of the 'accepted sentiment' around these parts is that Volvo's model lineup is essentially the same as BMW's in terms of which segments they target - minus, of course, the high end stuff like the M series, etc - and just subtract 10-20% off the price. They're /aiming/ at that spot just below BMW and I think that will explain some of the quality differences you've noted.

That said, the early S80s are pretty well known for their issues. I really can't speak to the quality of subsequent models as I don't have much experience with them. This would have been impossible to know if you bought the car new of course....

Then again there's another good point. Many of us on here drive Volvos because they make such excellent second hand cars. They can be had at a decent price and they are DIY-able. I know that's why I drive one - in the trade off between acquisition cost, maintenance cost, safety, comfort, reliability, DIY-ability... I think Volvos (esp the late 80's 7x0 thru 9x0/S90, and the 850/S70/V70 through 2000) come out quite well.

Again I'm not trying to explain your problems away, but when you have the margin, volume, and base prices the german makes have, it's a little easier to put your game together.

Actually I understand used beamers fit into this category as well, I just find the price of entry a little too steep.

--
1998 V70 AWD Turbo 195k+

buying second hand, I 100% with you. I bought a 2006 530i that looks like a show room car for 1/2 price. I am also a wrencher and I will say this is the most straight foward car I have ever worked on. So far: plugs,dif.oil, eng.oil, cabin micro filters... it was a snap. The cabin fiters...took about 1 minute. The s80...I can`t remember...I just remember I threw my back out. ha ha

lane

Good god man, it IS your fault! 5 Volvos in 15 years is pure rapacious automotive destruction. I have 5 Volvos that I have had for more than 15 years, each one still running strong. The Taliban has less turnover from the Hellfire thing. Well, maybe not, but if I ever wear out my '79, I won't get an S80. I'll drive the '83 more, or maybe the '89, the '91 or the '98

that car. Then a 1993 940 "new" I still have this car in storage as I have about 575,000 miles on it and too many good times with that car. Also had a 1992 we bougtht in 1998 for my wife. And then a wrecked 1993 that I R&R the trans into the 1993. Still have the engine. But I am very pissed at how the s80 was designed. I`m just not a fan of front wheel drive cars. I don`t like the way they feel, too much weight over the wheels compared to BMW which is about a 50/50 weight split.

Regards,
Lane

Sorry to here the S80 was such a downer. I have heard so many horror stories about the S80. I don't think I will ever get a volvo newer then 98. I would like a C70 convertible, but stories like this make me think twice.
--
FCP Groton

Interestingly enough, I had begun to look for a good used S80 to add to my stable of volvos and replace a 97 S90 that I mistakenly sold. I spoke with my friend, the service tech at the local Volvo dlr and he, right away, mentioned not to buy anything from '99 to '01. If you were going to buy an S80 it was better to begin in '02. He said he didn't know what they did in '02 but it was like they turned on a faucet and everything was better.

I`m sure they have made improvments...as they only had one way to go, you can`t get any worse. I did love the brand. I have by, word of mouth, trust sort of thing, sold a few volvos even a new one. It is my goal to get the truth out about this company and maybe help someone not buy a piece of crap. Its not just one thing...its everything; from the arm rest,turn signal,sunroof,etm,seats squeeking,the thin sheet metal they use,sway bar links I can go on and on. And then my dealer universty volvo in charlotte treated me like a idiot and that was it. The funny part is, I`m very happy this happened. Because I was so loyal I had blinders on and would have never bought another brand. I truly enjoy driving now and I would have missed this pleasure If volvo had done the right thing. And thats why I`m not mad.

Regards,
Lane