I posted this earlier as a reply, but thought I would open it up and make it a separate topic . . .

Last weekend I visited the local Volvo dealer anticipating him to have at least one of the new S60s to look at. Unfortunately he didn't (I think I am a little too anxious to test drive this car). While I was there, I decided to look at a new BMW 330i. Now don't get me wrong, I love my Volvo, but I had to satisfy my curiousity. I mean, every new car review I read for the sports sedan market always mentions the BMW as the benchmark. Well, now I know why. It isn't the fastest car on the block, but WOW does it handle great! However, the dealer said they were consistently getting MSRP on this vehicle and at $42k, I had to chuckle.

Now here's my question, how close is the new S60 going to rival the BMW? Maybe I am comparing apples to oranges here, but I know I read a review stating Volvo was attacking cars such as the BMW (whether the 3-series or 5-series I am not sure). I really enjoyed the BMW, but it is way over-priced (IMO)! I mentioned to the salesman about the S60 rivaling BMW and he just laughed. What are the thoughts on this board about it?

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,

Just the other day a colleague and I were talking "Volvo" (he owns a '95 V70 turbo) and we both surprised each other as we feel our next car may very well be a BMW. Don't get me wrong, I live and breath Volvo and am very involved with the CVC (Canadian Volvo Club). But while keeping both the 240 and 850, I am considering a BMW for my wife. This is simply a poor excuse to purchase what IMHO is what a true performance car should be: RWD. To disregard things like HP and torque or simply power for a minute, a true performace vehicle begins with RWD and I stand by that in a big way. FWIW, I have a problem with manufacturers continuing to deliver increased HP while at the same time sticking with the FWD platform. AWD is certainly a compromise, but I think BMW and other RWD designs have over all of us the advantage of RWD handling without annomolies like "torque steer" typically found on powerfull FWD designs like SAAB. To quote your previous comment...I think we are comparing apples to oranges.

After my little test drive, I have done a little research on the BMW 3-series (mainly I've just been visiting their online forum and seeing what is being said). It is amazing how similar the complaints are between this board and that regarding dealers, service, expenses, etc. I guess you are going to get that wherever you go . . .I mentioned the BMW to my wife, and then realized her Volvo loyalty isn't as deep as mine. I admit that may have been a mistake on my part. She's already picked out the color. . .

Mark

The S60 probably falls between the BMW (sport) and Mercedes C-class (luxury). If you want a damn near perfect driving machine, the BMW has an indescribable synergy about it that is hard to beat. But if you're into Volvos, the S60 will be what you want - sporting, comfortable, unique and safety-conscious. And if you want to kill some 330is - get the manual tranny, and I'm sure ipd will offer chips, bars, shocks, springs, etc...

Haven't driven an S60 but I have a new 330i. Stick shift, sports package. What a machine! Superlative in every way. Literally has me grinning ear to ear every time I drive it. I actually look forward to my commute these days!

Regarding price, getting $1000-$1500 off MSRP is commonplace (I got $1200 off without really trying too hard) and deals as good as $3000+ off have been reported, so your salesman is BSing you. You can get a 330i for well under 40K if you pick your options wisely.

Depending on what you want, don't forget to check out the new MB C-class. Certainly a superb car and very competitively priced. Another very strong competitor to the S60. Other choices in the same segment would include the Lexus IS300 (nice car but goofy looking IMO), the Audi A4/S4 (to be updated next year) and the new Jaguar T-type to be released in '01 as an '02 model.

All of this competition is great for us the consumer as it leads to better and better products.

Ram,

the "new" (I use quotation marks because it is anything but...new!) C280 is not even close to the BMW (or the S60 in this respect)...performance -wise it way behind both.

The IS300 (I t/drove it last week for about 60 miles) is an interesting one. I am inclined to say that it is fun but what has lingered in my mind is that it was...trying too hard. And it no European car. It tries to be one but you can tell it is a very sporty Jap! Not bad though...but again, it is no BMW!

The MB C-class comes as either the C240 or the C320, no C280. I agree it is not sporting in character (which is why I didn't buy it!), but it is still a very nice package indeed that will appeal to many. Which is why I used the words "Depending on what you want...."

Hej Mark

I just tested an S60 T-5 5 speed, on the week-end, very nice, very nice in deed. I think the sales guy at BMW should be laughing,,,,, nervously,,,, very nervously.

However I have not driven the 330i.

I thought it was wonderful little turbo lag in sprited driving and gobs of brakes. I felt it also had a very unusual lack of front end push typical of an FWD car. Volvo has realy done its homework here.

Drew