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I have a 04 na v70 with 157k miles and I flushed the trans last at 100k with Mobil 3309. Bought the car CPO with 42k and it had never been flushed. In the last 5k the car seemed sluggish and now it's almost dangerous to merge onto the freeway. I'm getting worried. The car is not shifting normally. Can a flush resolve this problem? Anyone have this happen to them before? I'll pick up a case of 3309 in the morning and flush it tomorrow and post my results.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Change the fluid, I have a 2003 XC70 with 100,000 mi have changed it three times since 40,000.
I get crisp shifts and the colour remains clear. Use the Mobil 1/2 the price or less than Volvo's price.
It's easy to do in your driveway about an hrs work. You may have to flush again after about 1000k if dirt or problem exists.
The fuel filter is also an easy change , located just in front of the right rear wheel, can be done in 5-10 minutes, car does not have to be lifted, two sweeze clips to remove the lines and loosen a bolt 12mil I think to loosen the hold down clamp. Make sure the lines snap back in place. Tape up the lines with masking tape to prevent dirt from getting into the clamp and lines when finished. (great tip from Claus)
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90-740GL , 92-945Turbo
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Already flushed with 3309, you're right it's easy.
Car does not have a user serviceable fuel filter. Weird, huh?
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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In your car, I believe it is the bottom line to the radiator that has fluid coming from the tranny, reversed from the 850 days. A good flush never hurt.
When is the last tune up? Does the engine rev freely or is it just a matter of down shifting to get the proper gear to accellerate?
Klaus
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Why are Volvos so endearing? Its just a car.
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No free rev's. Acceleration lacking....car is lethargic. Shifts 'good' if I keep the engine RPM's low. Can't kick-down to accelerate...can jerks and bucks. Plugs were changed in last 10k (volvo plugs....excellent) and motor rev's normally and strong when trans in neutral or park. Pulls no codes on AutoZone scanner.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Sounds like ATF has turned into glue. Lets hope the internal filter will flush out.
Yes, there is an internal filter, but you cannot get to it without disassembly. Fresh fluid will dilute the sludge and allow better flow.
Klaus
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Why are Volvos so endearing? Its just a car.
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I did the flush last night. No improvement as yet. The old fluid was pretty dark but no burn smell. Looking at my options and hoping the tranny needs time to come back with the fluid change. Erie has trannys (used) for about a thousand dollars. I am not interested in the doing the job myself. Any idea what an indy might charge to change it out?
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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If I were a mechanic, I would charge about $800-1000 in labor to swap a tranny and put in a rear main seal.
It is quite possible that your car has a couple of solenoids that are gummed up, causing the slow shifts. Give the new fluid a few days of shifting and see if it gets any better.
I disagree with your 2 mechanics. These trannies NEED to have the fluid flushed, especially in stop and go traffic. You can easily go 80-100K before the first flush, but then it should be every 50K miles or so.
Klaus
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Why are Volvos so endearing? Its just a car.
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1. Today I called a local shop known for very reputable foreign work (Waterford European - MI) and he told me he cannot look at the car until the 12th (next monday) and if it needs a trans his cost to R and R and change seal is about $1,100 plus fluid. He said he would put in a used trans, which is not included in the price. This shop has an excellent reputation.
2. This afternoon I took the car to a trans shop (RC Trans and Gear - MI) I've had good experience with for almost twenty years. This guy stands behind his work. I had a Jetta trans seal go bad after two years and he took the car back and redid the transmission without any hesitation. He told me he would rebuild it and guarantee it for as long as I own the car but wanted to see it first. When I got there he had mostly domestic cars, but a number of Jags, Lexus and BMW.
3. Randy (owner) took the car for drive with me in it and after about ten minutes told me he thought the trans was fine and had been misdiagnosed. He thought the car was starving for fuel, maybe a filter (which is not serviceable in this car) the way it labored under load. At that point the check engine light came on for the first time since the problem started. The car was dogging from a standstill....not stalled out but severe lag and hesitation. I can't believe the dealer technicians could be off so far but I'm interested in a second opinion.
4. When we got to the shop Randy's mechanic put a scanner on it and pulled a code for 'rich' indicating an oxygen sensor. Randy said he does not believe the sensor is bad and throwing the code. He thinks the poor running is causing the sensor to trip a false code.
5. Where am I going to find someone who can figure out what is going on with this car? Randy would not take any money. Told me if I need a trans, see him then. Not now.
6. My brother-in-law suggested that the new trans at the dealer might not be new after all, but possibly a rebuild. I was worried if Randy rebuilt mine with 160k that I might be better off with a used one. BIL said I would have no way of knowing how many miles were on the Volvo rebuild (if it is rebuilt).
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Wow, what a gooooood mechanic. Randy is correct, the O2 sensor message is usually caused by an over-rich condition, which left undiagnosed will eventually coat the O2 sensor and make it worthless.
Check all of your vacuum lines, ie: any line that goes into the intake manifold. Including the airbox hose to the throttle body. If you have a turbo, check the hidden vacuum line on the passenger side behind the PS pump, as well as the 3 lines that go to the turbo.
Fix any leaks, pull all 5 spark plugs and clean them with a wire brush because they will be dirty.
Klaus
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Why are Volvos so endearing? Its just a car.
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Went to reputable indy shop Friday morning and the mechanic/owner pulled the O2 sensor and substituted a vacuum gauge. The pressure was positive and he diagnosed by the way car drove and sounded on acceleration that I had a plugged CAT. He quoted me an aftermarket CAT installed for $730. He said he could not guarantee it would not trip the engine light (chance of 1 in 10 it would) and aftermarket converters will not pass CA emissions. I called an internet VOLVO dealer and got the converter quoted at $870 plus ft and a refundable core charge of $100.
1. I am leaning toward letting the shop do the work. It looks like it has a 25k warranty and this way I have someone behind it. The car has 160k and I am not sure it's worthwhile or necessary to install the original volvo at these miles, and spend roughly $400 more.
2. Does the old CAT have any salvage value?
3. Should I rethink this and put it in myself? Volvo or aftermarket?
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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That is a new trick, checking pressure at the O2 sensor. There will ALWAYS be positive pressure at the cat, not a lot but positive none the less. A plugged cat will act like a potato stuck up the exhaust pipe.
That shop gives me the willies! Slide uder your car when it is cold and shake the cat. If it rattles, then get a new one.
Meanwhile, keep looking for leaking vacuum lines...
Klaus
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Why are Volvos so endearing? Its just a car.
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ditto on the Randy comments - he's a keeper.
I have been following your thread and wasn't able to comment over the weekend when I wanted to because the site was not working properly.
First of all I would have suggested Seafoam Trans Tune. I think you put it in, drive for a while (less than 1000 miles IIRC) and then flush the fluid. I would have also suggested Lucas Trans Fix to be included in the flush (near the end to ensure most of it stays in the trans). Some people are dead set against additives of any kind but I don't feel like these are 'additives' per se, and do their job effectively and safely if used as directed.
http://www.seafoamsales.com/trans-tune.html
http://www.lucasoil.ca/products/product.asp?id=43&cat=Automotive
Now it seems you've determined that the trans may not be the problem, but frequent trans maintenance is pretty important with these cars. I think the transmissions are pretty good (even the 5 speed), they just need lots of care to stay healthy.
As to the possibly-fuel-related problem, I'm not sure what you meant when you said the fuel filter is not serviceable - the fuel filter should be serviceable on any car. I'm not sure where it is on the P2 cars but you should definitely be able to find it and replace it.
DEFINITELY you will need to check all Vac and PCV lines and ensure they're open, not leaking, and not collapsing. I tend to think if you're going to go through all the trouble of pulling the breather box and tubing etc away to inspect you may as well replace it all and just know it's all brand new. It's inexpensive, though it does take a fair bit of time, esp doing it one hose length at a time like I do (so I don't get confused).
You can use propane or butane to check for vac leaks after you have it all put back together. There are descriptions of this on this board and elsewhere.
Depending on the mileage on your ignition components it might be worth simply refreshing those as well just to be on the safe side (rather than cleaning). New plugs (OEM or aftermarket coppers) and possibly wires (and if your car has them dist cap and rotor but I think yours has coil-on-plug system).
A Seafoam head/fuel system wouldn't hurt either. Again the description of this is here and elsewhere. Even some youtube videos showing the whole process.
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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I did a major maintenance service at 105k when I changed the timing belt and ordered the parts from Tasca. I tried to order a fuel filter and there is none for this car. The parts technician at Tasca informed that this car, and VIN, does not have a filter external to the fuel tank. Now it could be that the only filter is the one attached to the pump, inside the fuel tank, but this is not what I would call a user serviceable item.
Is there any way to check the fuel pressure under load, and if the pressure was low would that trip a code and CEL?
"As to the possibly-fuel-related problem, I'm not sure what you meant when you said the fuel filter is not serviceable - the fuel filter should be serviceable on any car. I'm not sure where it is on the P2 cars but you should definitely be able to find it and replace it."
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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I am surprised Tasca did not have one in stock. Yes, your car does have a fuel filter, and, no code will be set if the pressure is too low. Unless you start to misfire due to lack of gasoline.
But this is not your problem. You are running toooo rich, so that when you push on the throttle the plugs are fouling.
Fix the air leaks.
Klaus
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Why are Volvos so endearing? Its just a car.
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I just got off off the phone with them, about forty minutes ago. He looked it up by serial number and there is no fuel filter. Volvo Cars NA is closed so I can't call them.
I am going to go after that vacuum leak as soon as it cools down. Then we'll get settled on the fuel filter craziness.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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I won't pretend I know what I'm talking about, but I do know FCP lists a fuel filter for the P2 cars:
http://www.fcpgroton.com/category-exec/category_id/139/nm/Fuel_Filter/sub_top_menu_item/by_make-by_model-by_year/by_make/78/by_model/1464/by_year/51
which engine does your car have. On the earlier (1993-2000) cars with the 5 cylinder engine you can test at the end of the fuel rail (schraeder (sp) valve) if you have the right tester. I always disconnect the fuel line from the rail and plumb the tester inline there. You're testing post-pressure-regulator, but that's usually what you're interested in anyway.
I'm not certain but I think the fuel pressure can vary a lot before the OBD-II system would pick it up. Also you might have stored codes that haven't tripped the CEL yet...
Also you may not have a fuel problem at all. Fuel is easy to wrap your mind around, but too much or too little or unmetered air will have just as much of a detrimental effect.
Measure the pressure if you have a gauge. Otherwise stick with the easy stuff - new plugs and vac lines, seafoam treatment.
If I think of it I'll check in VADIS tonight on the question of the fuel filter.
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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try this vin in vadis and see if they come up with a filter. tasca says no, there is no filter in this car.
YV1SW61T042395420
You DO know what you are talking about. The car SHOULD have a filter, but it does not, according to Tasca.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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VADIS does list a fuel filter, and it shows it in the location shown in the video I linked to earlier (under the pass side rear seat).
Volvo part numbers:
30817997
S60 chassis -18763
V70 chassis -83267
V70 chassis -77341
30620512
S60 chassis 18764-
V70 chassis 83268-
V70 chassis 77342-
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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Look carefully again (VADIS) and you will see a third tank configuration that does not not display a fuel filter outside the tank. I found it using the VIN number.
This morning Volvo Cars NA called me back. They confirmed it. There is no external fuel filter on my car. The dealer says no, Tasca says no, and VOLVO CARS says no.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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wow that's crazy - I wonder why they made different configurations of the fuel system for the same year?
Great find. This is invaluable info for folks getting into the same problem as you.
I will indeed look again as you suggest. You could consider adding a fuel filter to your car though. It shouldn't be an expensive upgrade and as long as you can get the stuff to work on vinyl fuel lines (shouldn't be hard to do) then I would think this would be a piece of cake.
Any movement on fixing your problem?
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1998 V70 AWD->FWD Turbo 200k+
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I found the SAME info in Vadis! Tasca looked it also up by VIN and has the no filter listed. I want to fix the running problem first, but as soon as I can I will peek under the car and see if it's there.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Yeah. Randy is solid. Suggested the name of a local mechanic he thought could figure this one out except that the shop is near Randy and I live about 30 miles away.
Thanks Klaus this is good feedback and I appreciate it. Also shows you the value in sticking with someone you believe in and patronizing the shop and supporting their business. My wife's car died tonight so I'll be distracted for a day or so and then I'll let you know what we find. In case you're interested. And I know you are.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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No change as yet, but I will keep watching. I ran a full case of 3309 through it Friday evening and checked the fluid level twice and it was spot on. I'll drive for the full day tomorrow and report back here.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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I did not have time to flush the trans yet because I don't have the o-ring or the clip, but I had an appointment with the dealer for this morning and I kept it. I really can't afford to be without a car.
The service technician (Don) at the dealer says the transmission is going. The service advisor says 14 hours plus materials and the new trans is about $3,000. They don't think the fluid change will help. One of the ST (Levi) said the poor acceleration and performance are sticky valve bodies which is an indication of general wear and stuff floating around in the fluid. I told both tech's (Don and Levi) I last flushed the system about 55k miles back and Don said that explained why the fluid wasn't dark. He said the fluid wasn't too bad and there was only a very slight burning smell, if any. The advisor said it's a bad idea to change the fluid or flush it. I asked him if that was Volvo's story-line or his general experience. He said that was conventional wisdom based on his own experience, not Volvo's position.
I have not flushed the fluid yet and neither thinks it will help. Don says maybe 10% chance and Levi says 2%. I've known Don for about 20 years and Levi for 5. They both agreed I could drive it and baby it for a long time, but the poor acceleration merging on the freeway makes it a safety issue. I looked up used trans at Erie and they are about $975. Don checked all the electrical connections and he saw no codes. He checked the plugs and replaced them because they looked good but a little worn. They had about 25k miles on them. I told him that was okay. They charged $30 for the parts. Total $140, but they spent over two hours on the car and I don't think that was unreasonable.
I'm holding out hope for the flush. Either way I may be looking at a trans in the future.
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I'm stuck on Volvo and Volvo's stuck on me....
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Get a second opinion at an indy volvo shop.
I flush the tranny fluid on my older v70 and my 855 evry 40k or so, both over 220k now.
On my last "new from the store" Volvo, bought 2004, sold 2008 with 50k the dealer itself did the transmission flush before the 50k mark.
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It's certainly possible that it could help. I bought my '98 V70 about a year ago and just got around to flushing the tranny a few weeks back. The condition of the old fluid was scary, very dark and smelled awful.
After a few days of driving with the fresh fluid I noticed a huge improvement. I always assumed these cars were just slow. I bet my car has 15-20% more pep then before, both from a stand still and accelerating on the highway. Big difference.
Just cross your fingers that you get the same results. Give it a few days before you draw any conclusions. Good luck.
Jeff
'98 V70 2wd 176k miles
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