In researching the 2001 S80, I have read numerous posts regarding the imfamous front subframe bushing clunking noise plaguing 1999 and 2000 model year S80s. Apparently, Volvo Cars is having dealers install rubber o-rings between the bushing and unibody, in an effort to prevent the subframe from contacting the unibody. I've also read that earlier "fixes" which entailed using "JB Weld and metal glue" were unsucessful. It seems that the current "fix" doesn't work on all S80s. Volvo Cars and its dealers are telling owners of these unfixable cars, that the clunking noise is a "characteristic of the vehicle".

Obviously, the reason for having the subframe bushings in the first place, is to decouple the subframe from the unibody. The fact that they don't decouple the subframe properly, would indicate that there is a design/manufacturing flaw present. It seems that the "fixes" Volvo Cars has issued to its dealers are just "Band-Aid" solutions to a major design/manufacturing shortcoming. How long do you suppose the o-rings will last before they begin to deteriorate? To me, these solutions are not characteristic of a manufacturer whose cars once had an excellent reputation for safety and durability.

Does anyone know whether Volvo has made any design changes to the 2001 S80 subframe bushing design and whether the 2001 S80s come with the subframe bushing o-rings already installed at the factory? Not having this problem properly resolved by the third year of production, raises concerns about the overall design of the S80 and the V70/S60 derrivatives, which are based on the S80 platform.

Your thoughts on this topic are appreciated.

To those individuals who have already responded to my original posting regarding this topic, thank you for your insights!

However, I would be interested in receiving more detailed information on what exactly caused the problem in the 1999 and 2000 S80s in the first place. I've read that Volvo issued several service bulletins on this topic and I would be interested in learning more about what information is contained in those bulletins. Does anyone have access to these bulletins?

From what I've learned so far, the subframe bushing problem must have been quite serious in nature, since Volvo apparently made design changes to the 2001 S80. Maybe it would be wise to avoid the 1999 and 2000 models altogether. What are your thoughts?

volvoshopper,

Avoid a '99 or '00 S80 b/c of the subframe bushing problem?? It's such a minor problem I wouldn't even worry about it. To date that is the ONLY problem I've had with my '00 S80 with 12K miles and it was replaced under warranty.

Regards,

Eddie W. in FL

I'll second that, Eddie. There has never been any indication that the subframe bushing issue was a serious problem, or even a "problem" at all, in the sense of effects on performance or function. It's an annoyance at worst. We had the fix done, under warranty, of course; and there have been no other significant problems with our 2000 T6 (B/D 10/99).

Broeux

Club S80 International

http://clubs.lycos.com/live/Directory/CommunityHome.asp?CG=68aali2dfna1380n004cf293tg

Broeux,

I respectfully disagree with your statement. The research I have done while shopping for a new car, revealed that the noise S80 owners hear, is the indication that the vehicle has defective front subframe bushings. Volvo issued the following Service Bulletin to its dealers on the subframe bushing defect:

Section 2, Group 21, Number 0030, Year 00, Month 04

The bulletins states:

"A knocking noise may occur when driving at low speeds on uneven road or at sharp turns, can be caused by one of the rear subframe bushings moving in the subframe. The knocking can sometimes also be felt in the floorboard under drivers feet."

Affected Vehicles:

Model S80, Factory 1, Chassis Nos. 000580 - 137346

That's 136,766 vehicles!

Volvo wouldn't have issued service bulletins or tried to develop several "fixes" for what you classify as an "annoyance". Obviously, they are aware that the subframe bushings are defective, since they aren't doing the job they're intended to do -- to locate and isolate the front subframe from the unibody. There isn't any evidence that vehicle safety ISN'T affected by this defect. The way the front subframe behaves in a frontal collision certainly has an affect on occupant safety. Perhaps the o-ring fix worked on your vehicle, but I've read posts from owner's of 2001 and older S80s, who still are having problems with the front subframe bushings. It is irresponsible for Volvo, a company that has built its reputation on safety, not to have developed a properly-engineered solution to a safety-related defect. Personally, I wouldn't feel safe driving such an automobile!

I have also learned that Volvo now specifies a different subframe bushing for the left-rear subframe location. Obviously, there is a inherent problem with the car's design or the way it's manufactured.

Also, I don't want to be a "Guinea pig" for Volvo while they are trying to sort-out the problems with the S80. I don't think that anyone spending over $35,000 for a car should have assume the role of development engineer... I already have enough to do!

Thanks, but no thanks, I'll spend my hard-earned money on a properly-engineered automobile!

>is the indication that the vehicle has defective front subframe

> bushings.

None of your references say anything about "defective Bushings" (cause they are not)

>Volvo issued the following Service Bulletin to its dealers

You got that right the bulletin was issued to dealers, not you, for a reason, it wasn't called "The Defective Bushing" bulletin, The bulletin was to correct a noise problem. Read it, don't read into it.

> Volvo wouldn't have issued service bulletins or tried to develop

> several "fixes" for what you classify as an

> "annoyance".

You got this one wrong also, thats exactly why they tried to get rid of the noise.

>but I've read posts from owner's of 2001 and older S80s

you hear what you want to, what about the ones who say things were fixed, they don't count?

>Personally, I wouldn't feel safe driving such an automobile!

Then don't, take your engineering concerns and apply them to something you have control over,(it's not Volvo engineering) something you will be happy with. (good luck)

You are a good example of how too much knowledge in the wrong hands can be a bad thing.

Volvo Shopping Monitor:

Its sounds like you're a Volvo Cars employee!

Service Bulletins are carefully worded to avoid possible litigation. Volvo deliberately left out the words "defective bushings" to avoid being sued by owners of these 136,000+ affected vehicles! You have to "read between the lines" to determine what they're actually saying. Volvo Cars is attempting to trivialize the problem by classifying it as a noise, instead of the safety-related defect it really is! Volvo Cars has NEVER provided any proof that the defect DOESN'T affect occupant safety, have they?

If the front subframe bushings performing as they were designed, there wouldn't be any noise present, would there? That would lead me to believe that the bushings are defective, especially the left-rear bushing. Why else would Volvo have specified a different subframe bushing for the left-rear corner of the front subframe on its 2001 S80? Volvo specifies P/N 3507924 for the left-rear corner and P/N 3507923 for the 3 other corners on the 2001 S80.

I've seen other data on unusual front suspension noise complaints from new vehicle owners and the 2001 S80 and the 2001 V70 had more complaints than most other vehicles in the study. The Volvo S80 and V70 were ranked among PICKUP TRUCKS, FULL-SIZE VANS and SUVs, when it came to unusual front suspension noise complaints! Its competitors' vehicles (and most other less-costly vehicles)typically had ZERO unusual front suspension noise complaints!

I'm happy for those owners for which the "o-ring fix" worked, but to me, it doesn't seem to be a properly-engineered, permanent solution. I also sympathize with those S80 owners who spent $35,000+ on a car which makes a knocking noise when driven and CAN'T be fixed. To those owners, Volvo Cars is saying that the noise is a "characteristic" of the vehicle. I've also read that Volvo Cars refuses to repurchase the defective cars--so much for standing behind your product! These unfortunate owners didn't get what they paid for and are likely to take a beating when selling/trading-in their cars.

I feel that consumers SHOULD be made aware of what problems they may face when buying a Volvo S80, especially when the problems may affect occupant safety.

Too much knowledge is never a "bad thing"!

Nothing's changed but the O-rings do solve the problem on all (UNLESS there's other suspension problems like sway bar end links, struts or otherwise). I've seen a few S80s now with over 60K miles and no front suspension complaints so apparently they're repairable and the repairs are lasting (staying fixed). Our dealer has never told our customers that they can't be fixed.

Thanks John,

Do you know whether the 2001 S80s arrive from the factory with the o-rings already installed or are they installed upon receiving a customer complaint?

They are NOT installed from the factory but it's possible that other changes might be in place with 2001s because we're not seeing them with similar complaints yet to my knowledge (at least I don't remember adding them to a 2001 car so far).

Once again Bob, Thank you for the information!

I'm curious as to why some the '99 and '00 S80s developed this problem in the first place. Was there some kind of manufacturing problem that resulted in excessive clearance between the subframe and the unibody, necessitating the addition of the o-rings to fill the void? Any additional information you can provide is appreciated.

So sorry John O, I inadvertently typed in Bob's name instead of your's when replying!

I'm curious as to why some the '99 and '00 S80s developed this problem in the first place. Was there some kind of manufacturing problem that resulted in excessive clearance between the subframe and the unibody, necessitating the addition of the o-rings to fill the void? Any additional information you can provide is appreciated.

When I make a left turn I hear a rattle or clunking noise near the right fron passenger. Is this the problem we are discussing here. It almost seems to me that the rattle or something loose is coming from inside the door. Any comments??

FYI, 01 V-70 and S-60 also use the same design.

I know, I work at a Volvo dealership.