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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

I had two new tires put on last month at Goodyear and it took two days since they had trouble taking off the lug nuts. Now today I have the car at Firestone for brake and bushing work and now THEY are having trouble getting them off.

Is this a common problem for the S80 or are they just inept mechanics??? Also what happens if they break off? They were able to get off 5 so far with a breaker bar but are still working on the rest.

Advice I can pass along please would be appreciated. I don't want to have to go through this every time I need a tire changed or rotated.

Thank you!








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

Find out if you can use Volvo's newer two piece lug bolts.

Although it may be expensive, they are great - tighten them up to 100 ftlbs, and they come off easy as pie








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

Don't ever let anyone else work on your car. Now every kid with a toolbox is technician, but not an mechanic. I don't even let Steve, the tire guy in town, install the wheels on our cars.

Greg








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You'd know not to trust a tire dealer, but how about a Volvo dealer?! .... S80

I've never trusted tire dealers -- the last time I let them put wheels on my car was about 45 years ago. When I buy tires, I just bring my "loose" wheels with the old tires; and I change all 4 tires between winter snows and summer tires.
But I figured that my regular Volvo dealer would know better, so I didn't think anything about letting them replace my parking brake shoes on my 240 -- was I wrong!

Just goes to show you that you can't trust anyone but yourself!

Below is an excerpt (but still lengthy) from my complaint to the dealer:

"...It was time to switch from my summer tires/wheels to my winter studded snow tires/wheels, and I put the car on my jack stands and first changed the fronts, which proceeded without incident. Then I approached the rear to change those, and found that I couldn’t loosen not one but all of the lug nuts!!! We’re not talking about using the flimsy emergency tool kit in the car, but serious tools. I have a medium duty, ½” drive, electric impact driver, and I use it with an impact socket (only) to remove the lug nuts.

[I should add, at this point, that I know enough to never tighten lug nuts with this setup but in fact have the luxury of being able to take my time (unlike your mechanics) and always use a torque wrench, set to 85 Nm (this figure from my Volvo Green Shop books, sections 5 & 7, etc.)! I learned my lesson decades ago with lug nut and stud damages from tire shops that use unbridled pneumatic impact guns – so since the late 1970’s when I finally owned my own home and convenient garage, I’ve never let a tire shop put wheels onto any car I’ve owned; when I need to buy tires, I bring my wheels and old tires in my other car. And of course, I do my seasonal tire swapping myself!]

I know that your mechanics have to finish jobs fast, and that using a torque wrench is too slow and affects profits, so I cannot blame them for using pneumatic impact drivers to tighten lug nuts. But the only reason I’ve always been at ease, at least until now, with letting your mechanics do work on my car involving the lug nuts is that long ago I was (obviously falsely, at least in this one instance) assured that your mechanics always use torque sticks, rated for the particular car they’re working on (e.g., marked with a blue band for 240’s, red for 700’s, etc.), with their impact guns. There is no reason why they shouldn’t use the proper torque stick every time they put in lug nuts – with them they can still utilize the speed that pneumatic drivers offer while properly torqueing them.

Your shop, and myself, are the only people who have touched my lug nuts, and the last time (before this weekend) that I did was last March or April, when I took off my snow tires.

At first, I wondered why or how this could possible happen? Who was responsible? But then I soon remembered the aforementioned rear brake work and realized that the last person to touch those rear hubs’ lug nuts was your mechanic, in August. And of course, he had to have tightened all ten lug nuts when he finished the work!

And it wasn’t just a fluke of one stubborn lug nut. All ten of the rear (both sides’) lug nuts were frozen! And I later discovered, virtually equally over-torqued! This could only have been a deliberate act! Leaving my impact gun, I then tried to use a long handle (2 ft. long, with a ½” drive tip) with my impact socket. No joy. Left with no possible way to unfasten any of the ten lug nuts, my last chance was a longer “cheater bar extension”. Fortunately, Home Depot was still open, and I managed to find a 5-ft long iron pipe that would fit over my long handle. I came home, and with the combination of my 2-ft., ½” drive handle and this bar (employing total of about 6-ft of lever length), plus a lot of back straining for this nearly 70-yr old man, I managed to gradually loosen all ten lug nuts.

Noteworthy is that they all seemed to require the same effort to loosen! And, please consider the immense amount that these nuts had all been tightened in light of my having to use a 6-ft lever to loosen them. Ever the scientist that I am, despite being only a retired professor now, I can even offer an (admittedly crude) estimate of the over-torque: For each of the ten lug nuts, I started loosening by holding the bar horizontal and lifted the end straight up – it felt, as I was straining my back, as if I was lifting about 40 to 50 lbs. So if you multiply 50 lbs by about 6-ft, you’re getting about 300 lb-ft of torque needed to loosen every one of those ten lug nuts. And even if my lifting estimate is off by a lot (e.g., only 40 lbs), the wheels still have been overtorqued by more than twice as much, 240 lb-ft, compared to the correct 102 lb-ft (the equivalent of the specified 85 Nm).

[By the way, the wheel guide pins on both sides were also overtightened. I have to remove it each winter (and replace it in the spring) because my snow tires are mounted on older steel wheels that lack the corresponding hole to accommodate the guide pins. These are supposed to be tightened to only 8 Nm (again, per my Green shop manuals, e.g., pg 21 of Section 5’s TP-31678/1), but I needed to use a wrench extension on my regular 10 mm box end wrench to loosen them.]

So after all this, with my snow tires successfully mounted, why I am upset? Because this could have ended up with dire consequences, even tragic ones. Suppose we were out somewhere on a dark, empty road, or alternatively on a busy highway, and we got a flat tire in the rear – even worse, suppose we were out with our 2-yr old grandchild, in such a disabled vehicle – I could NEVER have been able to remove the wheel to put on a spare tire, especially with the car’s standard tool kit! Your mechanic, in so excessively over-torqueing the lug nuts, placed my family in danger! Frankly, I don’t know if even a rescue truck from AAA would have had the means (i.e., carry a 5 ft cheater pipe) to loosen those lug nuts! I can only thank god that I discovered this in the safety and convenience of my own garage, rather than on a dangerous side of the road where we would have been in danger for a prolonged period!...."








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You'd know not to trust a tire dealer, but how about a Volvo dealer?! .... S80

Nice post Ken,

What did the dealer say? Did he have any remorse for the crude workmanship?

Bill








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None! .... S80

The dealer insisted that the work was done properly and that the mechanic is highly skilled and reliable. Maybe it was corrosion, they suggested!

Of course, there was no actual damage (thanks to my ingenuity with the pipe from H.D.), so there's nothing I can do (viz., law suits, insist on a repair, etc.

The only casualty is my trust in this dealer. I certainly won't be using them ever again, but my dilemma is, when I encounter a problem I can't fix, what to do. The only indy specializing in Volvos is not that reliable, too, tending to substitute generic parts even when I ask for Volvo-brand (so I stopped using him).








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None! .... S80

A sad story, and they aren't bashful about their high rates.

Who did you talk to at the dealer?
You might forward this thread to his boss or
the regional Volvo service office.

Bill








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Who .... S80

After every service, I routinely get an email from a person who identifies herself as a representative of the president of the corporation (they own several dealerships in the area), and who asks "...“…If you feel your recent service visit was anything less than outstanding, please contact me at _______. I will be happy to assist you regarding your concerns. Thank you again and safe driving. Kind regards, ________, Customer Relations…”

Big hoooey!

But yes, I am thinking about contacting the regional office, and even to Rockleigh, too.








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Who .... S80

Do it as a public service. The right people have to be aware of the bad job.

"Talk to the horse, not his friend"

Bill








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Dealer dissatisfaction S80

The reason this web site was created, we all had unpleasant experiences at the dealership. Either the hourly wage Vs 'book' rate, or just plain "throw parts at it" until we cried uncle.

When a dealer screws up, we also need to contact the dealer using Email and CC the NJ office. The practice will not get any better until we, the customer, complain. Complaining on a self help web site doesn't do much good, except give ourselves a pat on the back for learning how to DIY.

As for Independents, all you can do is complain to the owner. Let them know what your concerns are and why you won't get an oil change from them again.


--
My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic








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You'd know not to trust a tire dealer, but how about a Volvo dealer?! .... S80








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

Thank you both for your input. As I wrote in my original post this happened at both Good Year and Firestone!!! They told me that they broke two breaker bars getting them off but eventually did.

Now my question is what do tell the next person who may have to change a tire on my car since there seems to be so much trouble with getting all four of the tires off. The first time they had me leave it overnight and lubricated them with something and then had to use a truck bar (?) to get them off, this time they just used the force and breaker bars and they finally got them off after three hours.

I never had so much trouble getting tires changed...I didn't think it was rocket science. Should I get another flat in the future I will not go back to either of those places.








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

Seems the shop used a penetrating oil overnight. Good call, as breaking them off is not a good thing.

So what should you do now? Go get a relatively cheap torque wrench that goes to 100lbs or more. You car's manual says 100lbs of torque for your lug nuts.
Then get your lugnut wrench out of the trunk and try to loosen each of the lugs 1/4 turn, all 5 at the same time. Then take the torque wrench with a 19mm socket and tighten the lugs to the 100lb mark. You don't need a jack to do this.

If you have difficulty loosening the lug, place a 1 inch PVC pipe over the end of the handle. About 2 feet long should do it.

At least you will then know that the wheels are put on properly. Leave the PVC pipe in with the spare tire, just in case.

After a tire shop touches my car, I always re-torque the wheels when I get home.
--
My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

This is not rocket science.
The lugs come out or bust off as fast as you can say, "Shoot a lobbyist".
You just need a bruiser of a breaker bar (Minimum 1/2") and a two foot or so
pipe. You must have taken your car to the Three Stooges.
How could those idiots spend 3 hours unless they were determined to get it apart
with the stock lug wrench? More likely they were stoned to the gills.

You might visit new places. Ask first what they torque the wheel lugs to.
(Should be 81 Ft/Lbs) They need one of the extensions in this kit:
http://www.harborfreight.com/12in-drive-torque-limiting-extension-bar-set-10pc-69870.html
There's a yellow one @ 80 ft/lbs, good enough.
I wonder what Snap-on gets for a single 80 pound limiter extension?
Probably more than the HF kit.


Bill








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

Those guys are like some of the local idiots that will put 600-800n ft/lbs of torque on the lug nuts. The 850 spec is 81 ft lbs.
They need to use a torque limiter on their air gun, I use the 80 lb one that comes with the Harbor Freight kit.

Lucky that you didn't have a flat in some remote area and have no chance of getting the lug nuts off. The remedy is to take a husky 1/2" breaker bar or
bigger with an impact socket and maybe a 2' pipe on it for more leverage.
It either comes out OK or it snaps off, (then you need to replace the stud).
I like to use a good coating of never-seez on the studs, it helps them come apart
later. Avoid that tire place after they repair the damage. They are Bozo's.

Bill








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80








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Lug Nuts on a 2001 S80 S80

Using a good torque wrench and 100lbs a few days ago should have made it easy for Firestone. I wonder if some turkey didn't bother to hand start the lug bolts and cross threaded them with an air wrench.

All you can do is try to clean off the lug bolts and inspect the thread on the bolt and the carrier. Volvo says not to, but I like to put a little grease/anti sieze on the back side of the bolt where it touches the wheel rim.
--
My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic







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