I'm looking at a '96 850 Turbo.

What I know about it:

perfect body

157,000 miles (it was a hiway car)

drives nice.

great interior.

No excessive blow-by.

Dealer repairs inc recent timing belt replacement.

$12,000

So what did I miss? What should I look for?

/Jarrod

Heres' what I think

1. He's got to come down on the pice because of the mileage.

2. Have a compression test done on it if you just gotta have it.

3. How much do you think the car will be worth by the time you pay it off if your making payments, and how many miles will it have by then.

Price sounds high. I'd want to see service records!!!

Don't know what area you are in. I purchased my wife's 1997 850 GLT LOADED with 60K miles for $15,900 - the car has all service records stamped by a Volvo dealer and is IMMACULATE.

I'd say pass, but I haven't seen the car. See the service records and have a qualified Volvo mechanic go over with a fine toothed comb.

Still, price sounds high for miles.

Good luck,

Barry

The two major items I would look out for would be the transmission and air conditioning. Regular ATF changes are not required maintenance according to the owners' manual and as a result, many are not done until there's a problem and then it's too late. The A/C systems tend to lose their refrigerant either through evaporator leaks or other leaks in the system. Check the A/C- if the compressor is cycling rapidly, every 3-4 seconds or so, you are low on refrigerant. Maybe it just needs to be topped up or maybe there's a problem. $12,000 sounds like a lot for a car with those miles and no service records. I would keep looking. Mr. Yuk, a frequent poster, bought one with those miles for much, much less. Good luck.

Right on Wayne.

I bought my 1995 854 GLT with 158k miles 15 months ago for $7,500.

Turbo may not be an appealing factor any more at this mileage. More oil leak and more fuel usage for a turbo.

But then, I was so caught up with the great price and I forgot to check the AC and it was bad... (an $800 repair if I'm going to repair it)

I have no regret whatsoever and will do it again next year by buying a high mileage 1997 855.

Good luck.

1995 854 GLT 187k miles

What kind of mileage(both hiway and city) should I expect for this model?

JARROD- Sorry for the late response; i'm in the NYC area. Like I said my car was originally from CT. and the prev. owner(some Domino Sugar Corp. exec.) obviously drove alot. I was suprised to see a 3yr old car with over 100K mls.(not to mention is was a lease, so he/his company paid big in milage fees).But in today's world, I've seen '01 S500 w/ 25K mls. anyway, I would say the car is in CLEAN(needs NO major body or mech. work). I reapinted the bumper when I got it, and 2 months later the nicks were back, so I decided to pay for a garage. The car is loaded, except for the CD changer and spoiler. And I'm ASKing $12K. Just go to edmunds.com and plug in the numbers and you can have a base point to see if (mine or any other) car is worth it. Later, BD

I have a V70T5M and I get, maybe, 22-24mpg, with mostly highway driving. Those are all hungry, hungry horses.

I'd keep MINE at 157k, but I know it's history. Including the Mobil-1 since day one. At 157k, I'd want to see a fully stamped logbook. 157,000 isn't a simple multiple of 70,000, so it isn't the scheduled time to replace the timing belt. Perhaps the previous owner skimped on other things, too.

For a highway-driven car, look carefully at all the glass...windshield, headlights, and fog lights. My car is beginning to acquire quite a patina from all the rocks, the lights and Pilkington Glass windshield aren't cheap.

Visit Kino's website, of course. Also I'd have it checked out by a good Volvo mechanic.

For $12k you can probably get a nice, low mileage 940 Turbo, which was the best of the breed. '94-95s had those oil-sprayed pistons that the RWD crowd pines over. 2 airbags, too. And no OBD-II and so no "check engine" light that never goes off.

My $0.02.

-Phil the Soothsayer

So you're saying the '94 and '95 940 is a better car than the 850, huh? (which is what I believe too)

To paraphrase our ex-president, it all depends on what the meaning of the word "better" is.

The 850-SVC70 turbo is a little faster and quicker than the 940 turbo. Probably marginally safer, too, especially with the side airbags. But it's sure not designed to be shade tree mechanic friendly.

If I were looking for an older Volvo for my kid, I'd want to look for a Volvo that my mechanic can actually diagnose and fix.

-Phil the Soothsayer

Hey, Phil! I'm looking for a Volvo for ME! The kid can buy his own! - I already gave him one car (used Honda Prelude - dumb and dangerous, I know!)

I've never owned a Volvo but I'm keen to get one next time I switch cars. We currently drive a Honda and Suzuki Vitara [no comments invited on these choices :) :) ]

All I know about Volvos is what I've read in books and learned here. I really like the classic looks of the 740 but need to acquire something with less need for maintenance expenditure (hopefully). Since $$ figure in the equation, my choice comes down to a 940 or 850. Do you reckon the 940 is the more mechanically-friendly option?

Here are a couple of questions I still have - apart from personal preferences/requirements, is there any mechanical advantage/disadvantage between the sedan and estate versions of the 940 and 850? Are the non-turbo versions dead in the water?

I appreciate your opinion so you don't have to sooth say; you can tell it like it really is!

Regarding ease of maintenace on a 940 Turbo. I have repaired every problem myself since the alternator went bad and I payed $700 for parts and labor (didn't even get a reach arround). Found the part myself for %40 less than what the shop charged me, and could have changed it myself.

I've since replaced radiator, shocks, struts, ball joints, brake rotors and pads, window motor. All at the curb with craftsman tools and a haynes manual. It was a very easy car to get started on IMO. I have 135k and will keep it until it becomes unsafe to drive (if ever).

I haven't had my 850 (normally aspirated) long enough to opine on the complexity. Will do my first oil change on sat.

You might want to post your questions over at "RWD" and also at "Opinions", because this all is, after all, one man's opinion. Volvo owner's opinions tend to be passionate, if anything.

Visit "Kino's Volvo Site" for some ideas as to what breaks on the 850/SVC70.

Also, there are Steve Ringlee's 7xx/9xx FAQs available from the main Brickboard page, which are very useful.

If maintainance cost is a major consideration, I'd avoid the 850- as a FWD design there are a lot of parts to break, plus it's not designed to be particularly easy to work on. The 940, as a "conventional" RWD automobile, is pretty straightforward.

Part of my apprehension about recommending a used 850 is that there is no way to know exactly how it was driven or maintained.

I would definitely avoid a 960, later sold as the S90 and V90. (It's been said here "avoid any Volvo with a "6" in the model number. In addition to the teething problems of the new alloy engine series, it has a lot of electronic gizmos to break. Other models to avoid are the 16-valve 4-cylinder sometimes seen on the 940 and 740GLE, and the V6 in some 760 models).

The 940 was only available in automatic form in the US (Are you in the US? You wrote "estate" rather than "station wagon". ) As such, it's a slug in non-turbo form. Even Consumer Reports, in it's contemporary test of the 945, suggested getting the turbo version.

The naturally aspirated (non-turbo) 850 with the manual transmission is quicker than the 940 turbo automatic.

The 940 that I think you "want" is the "estate" (station wagon) with the 4 cylinder, 8 valve, turbocharged iron-block motor. In the US the "best" years, in my opinion, were the last '94 and '95 model years. The Rest Of The World got 940s for a few more years. All US 940s were 940As...or 940 automatics.

(Old Volvo nomenclature: first digit 9=series, second digit 4=number of cylinders, third digit 5=number of doors. Mostly. There are a noumer of exceptions. Also, internally "A" following the model = automatic, "M"=manual.)

Turbos don't seem to be the problem that everyone worries about. They seem to fail only rarely based on the comments here.

Considering sedan vs. wagon, I'd definitely get an estate (wagon). The one thing Volvo does very well is wagons. It greatly simplifies my life having all that space in the rear. If you have a Honda, you may (will) be disappointed at the amount of maintainance a Volvo requires. On the other hand, you may apperciate the higher quality of the Volvo's appointments. We have both a Volvo and a Honda. I prefer the Volvo, my wife prefers the Honda.

If you do go for a Volvo, do have it checked out by a good Volvo mechanic first. Also, look for a service logbook with all the scheduled service stamps.

-Phil Punxsutawney

(Pseudonym stolen from Punxsutawney Phil, the Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania groundhog who predicts when spring will arrive every year.)

Phil:

"I would definitely avoid a 960, later sold as the S90 and V90"--It burns me:-) when I hear unsubstentiated rumors: I had a 94/965 and now I have a V90 and I have no doubt that 965/V90 Volvos have been so far the best models put together by the company. They are comfortable, reliable, safe, quiet and make my old 245 look like a machine from a stone age. My first Volvo 245 required much more maintenance in comparison to 960 or V90. Just looking at the bnrickboard discussions, you can tell that people have more problems with their 850s than V90.

Enjoy your Sunday:-)

Hi. Janusz!

I have found reading your comments entertaining and helpful over the months. However, now I AM confused! I'm trying to discover the most reliable, least troublesome model - 940, 960, or 850. Seems the 850 is mechanic-friendly so, which, in your opinion, is more reliable - the 940 or 960 (say, '93-'95 models)?

Jarrod:

If you want the volvo that is "mechanically friendly," then among those three models that you mention, 940 is the best. I cannot see how 850 is more friendly than 960 or V90: 850's engine is the same engine as 960's engine, minus one cylinder. I do agree with Phil that 960s have had some problems to contend with, but the way people talk about 960s/V90s, you would think that they are talking about Yugos. 93/94 850s have had their own share of problems with their trannies, for instance. If I had to buy another Volvo, I would not hesitate to get another V90. If you want to get 960, then I would look for a 960 that is no older than 1995. However, looking at your specifications, 940 sounds like the choice for you. Remember that buying a car is highly personal decision, and everyone will give you his own opinion, but you are the one who will have to live with it. So sample the cars and see what you like:-)

Happy hunting:-)

Consumer Reports placed the '95 and '97 960 and '98 S90/V90 on it's "Used Cars to Avoid" list in it's April "Annual Auto Issue" this year. ("All of these cars have shown below-average reliability...")

The 850 is not on the "Avoid" list, nor is the 940.

The '98-'99 S70/V70 is also on the "Avoid" list, and owning one, I understand why.

I know you like your car, and I know you liked the one you had before that one. I'm happy that both of your cars have been relatively trouble-free.

You have a sample size of 2 960/SV90s. Consumer Reports receives questionaires on a total of over 500,000 vehicles annually. I'm sure their 960/SV90 sample size is larger than yours.

I hate to disagree with you, but my statements are not unfounded.

Have a nice day, too!

-Phil the Soothsayer

Phil:

You do, indeed, have a point regarding the Consumer Report recommandation regarding 960s and V90s. But this is where I see a problem with living your life according to statistics: If I followed statistics, I would have never gotten married, and thus I would have never enjoyed 11 year old relationship with my wife. Why? 56% of marriages in the States end in divorces and thus CR would have surely labeled marriage as an activity to "avoid"--but that's insane. Likewise, if one likes what one experiences, why should one stop because some number cruncher thinks that he knows better what is good for me? As Mr. Twain nicely put it, "There three kinds of lies--lies, damned lies and statistics."

So the moral of the story is this: Read the CR, drive the car and if you like it, then damn the press: Otherwise, we all should be getting Hondas and Toytas, since they have the highest ratings. Well, not me. . .

Live a little and take some risks; otherwise your like will become a tedium.

Hope your week is going to be enjoyable.

Oh yeah,- I had my tranny flushed last winter(12/00).

How's the body? And where are you located?

The body is in perfect condition on the one I'm looking at.

/Jarrod

Jarrod- I'm seriously considering replacing my 97 T5 for a newer wagon. I have 32K less miles and is asking the same price. If interested, email me @ ddp@mwbhlny.com or billyd470@juno.com I can fax you copy of lien-free title.

Recent fixes/replacement:

New wiper blade

New dunlop tires(16")

Brake rotors & pads(4/00)

plugs, caps, rotor(4/00)

3 oil(M1)changes in last 14months.

Air(K&N) & fuel filter(Bosch)(5/00)

T-belt & w/pump done @ 77K mls

Problems/issues:

Need to replace ABS control unit to stop lights from coming on.(They always seem to fail on these cars, even newer ones; about $600 to fix)

Replace the bulbs in the trip computer cluster(went out a few days ago).

Car is in excellent condition and is garaged most(4days) of the week. I acquried the car with 113K mls out of Connecticut.

Good luck in your search, BD

Do you know whether it has ever had its tranny fluid changed? You don't want to be spending money on a new tranny just because Volvo has an innane recommandation of never needing to have tranny serviced.

I'll ask. But I don't expect him to know. Unfortunately, it does not have good service records (red flag, I suppose).

Is this difficult in this model?

/Jarrod

Jarrod:

If you do not have maintenance records, I would wait for another car. $12000 is a lot of money to ask for a car that has 157K and no records. There are a lot of other 850s out there that are as nice as the one that you are looking at and they have full papers.

I paid 12k for an 854T in near pristine shape with 72K on the clock, it had all the service records (but needed a new timing belt when I bought it)

body is clean, leather is in very good shape etc.

be patient, you can and will do better