posted by
someone claiming to be Mike Brown
on
Sun Feb 14 17:16 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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I have finally crossed the threshold into the P3's after learning of an 08 XC70 for sale with 150k that has timing chain noise. I picked it up today and it is a beautiful car, but does have a bit of a rattle that seems to come and go. Prior owner had two garages diagnose it as such, and bailed due to the cost.
Unfortunately I don't have any experience with the 3.2L engine so I am flying blind. There are mixed opinions as to whether crack it open, or just run it. Since it is due for serpentine belt, couplers, tensioners and a water pump anyway I intend to open up the cover and inspect the chain and guides.
I would welcome any insights from anyone who has tackled this, along with any advice on tools or other parts I should have on hand. It has been awhile since I was elbows deep in an unfamiliar motor but it was too beautiful of a car to pass on.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mike Brown
on
Fri Feb 19 10:49 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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Just to provide an update - I have been removing components from the air intake and shroud and cleaning them as I go. Engine bay is dusty (they lived on a dirt road) and I have thus far removed three separate squirrel nests - each was freighted with acorns (under shroud, in air duct and also battery the box).
Two observations - first off I now have significant doubts about how deeply the professional diagnosis went at either garage since most of these parts do not seem to have been removed. Secondly - although the open throttle body is sucking wind pretty hard, the noise has disappeared.
I am not counting it as fixed (yet) - but wanted to express my appreciation again for reminding me to slow down and do some diagnosis before throwing parts at it.
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Hi,
I want to thank you for keeping the Board updated!
Being that you found all that stuff under those plastic "sin hiders."
I agree the aggregates of a proper diagnosis was not collected!
This car must have been really left parked in the boondocks and that in itself, does let nature have its way with it! The car is over a decade old, but since it still looks good, that still sells!
Even in a bakery! Eye appeal, is sales appeal!
I don't even like parking anything over a grassy area, with rocks or not, because it does provide cover for critters to come and go!
All under the high security paths but it provides moisture from the ground. The grass acts like wicks right up under the vehicles. Tires in contact with soil rot a lot faster too!
I have a sister-in-law, that I finally convinced, that even roof pavers are better to put down to make a pad under a car is a whole lot better!
Now she has gone to using Decomposed Granite layers over her soil to keep down tracking dirt or mud around her property.
It's always a nice read to to find out what has happened or is happening with a posted thread.
The story and all our experiences helps everyone to feel more worthy.
Phil
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Considering the proximity of the air box to the timing chain, I can understand the mechanic's dilemma. No, I would not expect a mechanic to open the air box when I bring a car in for unusual noises in the engine compartment, why would he? But that would be the first thing he would remove if told to replace the timing chain. An honest mechanic would have cleaned the air box, called the owner to pick up the car, and charged just 1 hour of labor. An unscrupulous mechanic would have kept the car for 3 days, cleaned off the side of the engine, and then presented the owner with a $3,000 bill.
Sounds like you have found the source of the noise! Good for you! Now, clean the rest of the engine bay and inspect all of the exposed wiring looking for chew marks. And tell the previous owner what you found. He may have the same problem with other cars/trucks.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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Hi to KlausC,
My Sentiments exactly!
I would only tell the previous owner, if I thought they would learn from this, as others on the Brickboard shall!
Phil
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I didn't mean that he should gloat over the PO's diagnosis. I would only assume that the PO had other vehicles that could be carrying a bunch of acorns and to inspect the air intakes.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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Hi,
I got your point and would expect some gloat on both sides of the transaction, no matter which way the issue with the car goes! The deal is done when it's "as is."
The PO had his use out of it and this proves there those that are willing to pay more per ride basis than others!
This scenario puts the word "depreciation" on display with sides showing between lack of caring or loss of monetary value.
What you said about the neglect of ownership being elsewhere on that property is most likely true statement too!
The world still turns with all its peaks and valleys!
Phil
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You may want to reconsider removing the timing chair cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcRkD1lJxGQ
Your noise could be just the water pump. A stethoscope is needed to find the source of the noise, so long as there is no code.
In the meantime, flush the engine oil and replace it with 5W20 synthetic. I don't trust shops to use fully synthetic. Then drive it!
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mike Brown
on
Mon Feb 15 07:00 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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Thanks Klaus - you have helped me quite a few times since I bought my first Volvo (850 - arctic white with a spoiler)to take on my honeymoon.
I too saw that video - and I don't make the decision to open her up lightly. I will spend some quality time with my stethoscope today since this would be the first time I was ever glad the problem was "just a water pump".
Are you suggesting that I continue driving with the noise? I have visions of a slack tensioner or worn guide in the back of my mind that even made the ride home after buying it harrowing. The idea of my diagnostic driving is appealing - but replacing 24 valves keeps me in my place.
I will also change the oil today. Periodically I used to add an STP oil treatment or a duralube into my rotation. Has anyone found something that works well with synthetic?
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The modern formulation of synthetic oils precludes the need for additives. STP worked well with push rod engines, not so much with hydraulic lifters which can be clogged up. I would not add any aftermarket snake oils to my engine oil.
Unless I park the engine for 4-6 months. Then a table spoon of MMO added to each cylinder after the engine is cold can keep the rings coated during storage.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mike Brown
on
Mon Feb 15 16:58 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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Well I am certainly willing to try changing the oil and seeing what happens. I spent a little quality time with the stethoscope and truly there was no discernible difference between the noise at the timing cover versus water pump. I will have to remove some plastic before I am willing to probe a tensioner. Sometimes the diagnosis from a "real mechanic" coupled with my innate belief that each odd sound is either the engine about to blow, or rabies, blinds me to the basic steps in troubleshooting. I will definitely keep you posted.
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Hi,
Listening, seeing, feeling and even smelling has to be used.
It is an acquired skill by being patient in your steps of thinking.
After that process, we call it learning and working on the issue. Then with is confirmation of the learning process we will say. Jeez, I don't want to do that again! (:-)
I think you found out why the car was dropped like a hot potato!
From the looks of the video tear down, Done OUT of the car, is not one for the "faint of heart" or thick hands or tools!
My suggestion is since this is a low mileage think simpler that.
It should be something that's not running in oil like a timing chain.
The wear guides should be longer lasting than 150K since its self adjusting for slack.
The video showed quite a bit of stroke.
You said the rest of the car was beautiful and I would hope that this expensive model car would have been appreciated by the previous owner. But then, those people can afford kids that may not!
Try to segment the sound or sounds into a category of noise that might be created.
Sound is a vibration of the air waves in a frequency high to low depending on its mass.
A plused emission is most likely from a reciprocal motion that begins and ends.
One a rolling member like a bearing of a water pump or idler pulley is more continuous.
A pitch change is usually from a load changing inside an alternator of a bearing about to seize or something repaired and not done right the last time!
Sign of these times! Wham- Bam thank you Mam!
Was it a woman that sold the car?
Serpentine belts and pulley's can get creative in making strange noises with the above scenarios.
It was noted in the you tube video, provided by the other poster, that there was on certain models a one-way clutch that was excessively tighter in free-wheel, than he thought it should be?
Just from the way they sealed off the holding bolt, from access, was a totally "user unfriendly" design!
To be only be Removed and Replaced with new and it was mentioned in the video, that there was NOT enough room for a conventional harmonic balancer for accessories. I didn't think that it was for accessories to begin with, but for internal crankshaft stresses?
A Six cylinder and not the Five anymore?
Seems the engineering fellows painted them selves into a corner and left it on the "sales and service" department to deal with it!
Volvo has eaten a share of bad reviews in the maintenance costs arena!
From the other videos the list of special tools to work on the engine must have been what scared the PO into selling it!
It's No wonder that to be a mechanics in this day and age, you have to dig certain customers and then network with other mechanics to survive!
With You Tube and Forums the sharing of knowledge helps us deal with today's overly fraught technologies in our lives!
I guess I'm just a plain outright old guy, that is lucky, to still have several comfortable RWD 240s, to get shoved around in!
(:-)
Phil.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mike Brown
on
Tue Feb 16 07:19 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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Hi Phil,
I have a faint heart and thick hands and still have been getting in over my head since the mid 90’s. Brickboard has always helped me get right side up.
My bias towards the timing chain was that it was cited by two different mechanics (although the second could have equally been biased by the first). The prior owners primary mechanic is what I would consider an almost dealer – they sell used Volvos and are viewed as a high end indy shop. The second mechanic is more out of the way, but well known and “affordable”.
This was his wife’s primary vehicle and there was a car seat in the back so I can understand his hesitancy. My original thought was the guide on the tensioner getting worn due to low oil. However – in looking at the service records and receipts (they bought each of the mechanic’s children new braces it seems) the upper motor mount was changed in September and the noise is first noted in a November service visit.
The sound is RPM dependent, and not connected to vehicle speed, so it likely is in the area of the timing chain and serpentine belt - but the unusual pulley routing and design, not to mention the centrifugal clutches do suggest at least the possibility of an easier solution.
Fingers crossed!
Mike
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I still like David's response. Your problem needs better investigation.
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Keeping it running is better than buying new
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posted by
someone claiming to be David
on
Sun Feb 14 18:35 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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Hi Mike, Don't know if this helps but I had similar problem with an 2005 Jag v8. The timing chain rattled during warm up. Turned out to be the variable vale timing components (covered during warranty period). I mention this because I believe your engine was designed by Ford and made in the UK at their Wales production facility. This is the same plant that the Ford owned 05 Jag v8 came from. I know Ford liked to use its parts in Volvo and Jaguar cars during their ownership of these companies. Some thing to consider.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mike Brown
on
Sun Feb 14 18:51 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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That is helpful insight - I know that a lot of these components list Ford and Land Rover as alternate applications. Did your Jag ever throw a code for the VVT? I may be putting too much faith i the OBDII system and simply presumed I was dealing with a mechanical noise.
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posted by
someone claiming to be David
on
Sun Feb 14 19:28 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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No code - just the noise. The shop confirmed my concern and fixed it. They removed the cam covers and found both VVT units "deformed/non concentric". Replaced the VVT units and related seals and gaskets. I never saw any of the parts.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mike Brown
on
Mon Feb 15 17:02 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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Thanks David - it is certainly going to remain on my list of possibilities. They looks easily replaced once you get to them, as long as you have the crankshaft locking tools - which seems inevitable.
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