After facing some recent expensive repair bills, I found myself asking the question: Why am I keeping my '95 850? Why do you keep yours? List all that apply:

<1> Economical: Not ready/don't want to pay for a new vehicle.
<2> Perfectly satisfied, no alternatives needed.
<3> Safety
<4> Mechanical Quality & Reliability
<5> Long-term durability and repairability
<6> Ease of maintenance
<7> Performance - engine
<8> Performance - handling, maneuvering, braking
<9> Comfortable ride, seating
<10> Appearance & styling
<11> Features, Accessories, and Creature Comforts
<12> Other ______________


Would you buy Volvo again?: YES/NO

What else is there to say?

Rick in Denver

1> Economical: NOT!!!!! but I don't want to pay for a new vehicle. We had two Suburbans and a Caprice before we got our first Volvo. I saved enough on fuel to buy another Volvo!
<2> Perfectly satisfied, no alternatives needed.
<3> Safety - Had one daughter smashed by a drunk driver - right in the driver's door - no worries. Drunk got jail time!! The car was a 740 Turbo, but I expect the 850's to do even better.
<4> Mechanical Quality & Reliability - I read this board for 7 months before I got our first 850 - got an aftermarket warranty with each - got my money back on two so far - AUL and the dealer put $3900 into our '96 850R in two months! 34 to go!
<5> Long-term durability and repairability - two years and 30,000 miles total so far - no expenses above consumable items
<6> Ease of maintenance - I've had worse - ever tried to get at some of the parts in a Mini?
<7> Performance - engine - base is adequate, our R is a dream!
<8> Performance - handling, maneuvering, braking - Ditto
<9> Comfortable ride, seating - I have a bad disc in my neck and sciatica - best seats in the world IMHO.
<10> Appearance & styling - I never met a Volvo wagon that I didn't like.
<11> Features, Accessories, and Creature Comforts
<12> Other - Unlike a lot of people who post here, I like my dealer's people!
--
3 8s & 2 7s 725,000 miles total

<1> Economical: Not ready/don't want to pay for a new vehicle. (Yup..paid for 3 years ago ) 1995 Volvo Wagon 5 speed..122,000 on it

<2> Perfectly satisfied, no alternatives needed. Still LOVE this car every day I drive it. Would drive it to Alaska and back tomorrow.

<3> Safety ..Still way ahead of everything else. Sure some cars might do as well on frontal crashes, but the Volvo is designed for more than just frontals,,Ie take a look inside a door..It is built like a Panzer tank!!!

<4> Mechanical Quality & Reliability - Knock on wood. HAs been AWESOME..routine maintainence, brakes oil, filters etc. one window track, truck struts. etc, plugs wires etc. small routine stuff.

<5> Long-term durability and repairability Easy to fix, tons out there with 300K +..Irv Gordon is my idol.

<6> Ease of maintenance..can work on it
<7> Performance - engine Oka not great but delilvers good fuel econmy for the size..Wish I could get the diesel here.
<8> Performance - handling, maneuvering, braking Pretty damn good, but a BMW it is not.
<9> Comfortable ride, seating Best seats in the world period.
<10> Appearance & styling Good styling but not pretenteous..Just a Good solid European car with out the attitude of a BMW.
<11> Features, Accessories, and Creature Comforts Has everything I want, heated seats headlight washers, CD player etc. Wish I had Navigation..Maybe my next Volvo
<12> Other Space, practicality..I can drive this car on the back roads of Maine or take it to a nice dinner in Boston..It is just right!! ______________

1,3,9,10

Will I buy again? Yes. I'm averaging about $400/month for something on my 854T so why not shell out another $50 or so and get a new car? But what to buy, thats the question. I've spent about the last month looking for a Volvo alternative. I'm not too interested in the japanese cars and on boards from BMW, MB, Audi, VW, Saab there are complaints just like the ones that we have here! I'll probably end up with an S60.

Cheers.

Rob

95 854T 112K / 96 854 85K

<1> Economical: Not - but don't want to pay for a new vehicle.
<2> Sorta satisfied, no alternatives needed.
<3> Safety
<4> Reliability - mine has been pretty reliable
<8> Performance - handling, maneuvering, braking
<9> Comfortable tight seating
<10> Appearance & styling I REALLY like the LOOKS of THE 855 (NOT 854, V, etc)
<11> Features, Accessories, and Creature Comforts
<12> Other It is better than the old 88 Chev. Blazer!


Would you buy Volvo again?: NO I want a car with a Toyota V8...then I'll ad a supercharger! AND YES I'll get me another Turbo RWD Volvo!
--
www.fidalgo.net/~brook4

1,3,7,8,9,10,11 and Yes. I bought an '88 745turbo for <2k. The 855t's for sale. With 2 kids under 3 and my wife free-lance writing from home, the money can be used elsewhere.
--
Erwin in Memphis, '88 745t 183,000 miles, '95 855t For Sale

95 great car durable and reliability has been most noteworthy to me.Easy to work on and just a cheap as any other car for quality parts.

Original owner creaping up on 120K


<1> Economical: Not ready/don't want to pay for a new vehicle.
<2> Perfectly satisfied, no alternatives needed.
<3> Safety
<4> Mechanical Quality & Reliability
<5> Long-term durability and repairability
<6> Ease of maintenance
<7> Performance - engine
<8> Performance - handling, maneuvering, braking
<9> Comfortable ride, seating
<10> Appearance & styling



Yes would do it again

I'm glad you have good experiences! I probably had the same attitude a year ago or so. How might your opinion change if you faced this "what if" scenario?:

-- ABS repair, $1900 P&L
-- A/C evap, $1300 P&L

Market value of car: $6-8k

That evap repair seems high by around 50%. I thought it was around $800. Can you elaborate on $1,900 for ABS repair? You must live in a high cost area or use a dealer for repairs.

Yes, I'm quoting dealer costs. In my area, $98/hr labor. The ABS problem is the Hydraulic Unit, for which the part is $1400 + 5 hrs labor. It's a slow leak, so I'm adding fluid at the moment. Similar for the A/C. I've been able to add freon on occasion and defer the major repair so far.

Gerald C

Try finding a good independent mechanic.

Suggest you shop around a little and get a second opinion if you haven't already. Find an indie who specializes in Volvos. The dealer labor rate in my area is over $80- indie is $50. $35 difference times 5 hours is $175. I know it's nominal compared to the part cost but maybe you could mailorder it from somewhere or get one from a recycler.

I never understood this kind of math. If you could buy a new car for $6-8K then maybe. Your driving an almost $30k car that will require an average of $1k per year in repairs to keep maintained. For $2-3k your back on the road for another 30-40k miles. Or, you could go buy a new car for $30k and be back on the road for another 30-40k miles, and still plan on averaging $1k per year in maintenance.
The longer you can keep your car the cheaper it will cost per year. Just keep dividing the years by the cost plus maintenance. Your 97 cost say 30k plus 6 years maintenance of 6k, equal to 36k divided by 6 years. That is 6K per year of 500 per month so far. Keep it for 20 years, 30K plus 20k, equal to 50k, divided by 20 years, equals 2500 per year of 208 per month.

$5316 annually pays for an awful lot of repairs. Realistically, you're not going to need to replace the evaporator and the ABS controller every year.

My strategy for buying a new car is usually when either the reliability becomes too bad or when there are sufficient technological advancements in new cars to make the change worthwhile. Both are subjective IMO, of course.

New cars still don't all come equipped with ABS, side airbags, and 236hp, so the technology argument for replacing my Volvo doesn't work yet, as it did for my '74 Dodge Dart.

Over 150,000 miles of ownership the evaporator replacement works out to $0.01 per mile. If you're unlucky like Kino Velez and get to do it twice, that's $0.02 per mile. One failed evaporator and one failed ABS controller is still only about $0.03 per mile.

The dreaded Previous Owners probably traded their cars for some reason or reasons other than that the car needed a good polishing and vacuuming. If one purchases a used Volvo and is not mechanically inclined one needs to have it checked over carefully.

-Punxsutawney Phil

'98 V70T5M, white, 112k mi., sport suspension, Mobil-1, iPd stabilizer bars, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, Valentine-1

http://www.groundhog.org

I like your reasoning! But it assumes that I want to keep the car that long. If I had your '98 V70T5 with 112k, I would certainly keep and maintain it for 150k or more. But I have a '95 850 GLT, 167hp, no side air bags, with 80k. Different level of love, perhaps?

Gerald C

I'm not sure "love" is the correct word. It's just a car. But if it didn't have the 236hp and the 5-speed it wouldn't be as much "fun" to drive. If it weren't that much fun, would I be willing to put up with the minuses? Probably not.

As I've posted before, my stack of repair receipts is so thick it won't fit in the glove compartment. My original comment in the thread was that I might buy a new one if Nissan bought the company ... and did something about the electrical QC.

Over 150,000 miles it's possible to amortise just about any car ... if you buy what you really WANT, then you won't get tired of it after a few years or disgusted with it after a couple of repairs.

Wife drives an Oddy minivan. Were I restricted to driving an automatic, could I set up a new Oddy in a way that it would be fun to drive? Sure, it's been done, it mainly takes larger wheels and beefier tires.



I'm actually considering a 2004 Subaru Forester XT next. Just like nobody expects a Volvo station wagon to move the way a T5 does, I suspect that the new Turbo Forester will be a lot of fun. At 150k the Volvo will move down the chain, to the kid's motor pool.

-Punxsutawney Phil

Roger your financial logic. Your quoting my dad's reasoning too! (Of course, he still drives a 1978 Buick. No kidding.)

A couple of comments: If maintenance costs were really only $1k a year, that sounds OK. I would budget that for brakes, tires, tranny flush, little things, etc. But I'm faced with $3k+ right now, and I've heard too much about rear seals, starting problems, PNP, transmission problems. What's next? I know that European cars are not to be compared with Japanese luxo models in terms of finesse, but investing $35k in a new Lexus, Infinity, Acura does not come with the expectation of $3k annual repair costs at 80k miles. Then there's the nuisance argument. This is why I don't have a 1978 Buick. :)

Gerald C

The $1k per year is an average. Oil changes, tires, brakes, normal wear don't count. Any car will need them. You may spend $3k this year and and then spend only 2-300 for 4 more year afterward. I have an 87 765T with 186k miles. It has had some expensive years, like new tranny. But when you average the costs, even including brakes, and tires it has not gone over $1k per year.
Knock on wood, my 92 944 103k has been trouble free and expenses have never approached the $1k per year average yet.
The hassle factor is something else altogether...and I can relate. It has been more than once when I was ready to go down to my local Toyota dealer and try end my misery. Problem is the Japanese don't make a wagon comparable to a Volvo wagon.

I love my '94 850. In 2 years, no probs beyond reg. maintenance. I'm not crazy about the radio, but hey. I would totally buy another. What's with you guys?

3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 - wife really likes the car. It's a 97 T5, very well-maintained and in good shape.

Would I buy another Volvo? Probably not.

3
7
8
9
10
11



Probably would Not Purchase Another Volvo

I have given some addtional thought to your very good poll.

I am the original owner of a 1995 Volvo 850 Turbo that now has 74K miles.

I do a substantial amount of maintenance and repairs myself- larfely with the very excellent instructionson Bat 13 (volvospeed.com).

My 850 Turbo is a love & hate relationship. I love the car! Excellent performance, love the style and looks, appreciate the safety.

I hate the constant repairs and Maintenance- fortunately I have saved a lot of green by doing the work myself(largely).


Bottom line- I love the 850 turbo's performance and style and put up with it's flaws!

NAthan

1
3
Yeah, I'd do it again but I would never by the first year again. I have a '93 854(four door sedan) 127k mi I have evaporator issues ( the infamous pinhole leak!) , and have replaced the transmission. My 18 year old is using now so the safety factor is all I need to keep it. At ten years old I'm not worried about ?!@#ing something up. I love doing the repairs myself so it doesn't cost me as much( my time is my time if there were really something else I was into the it might be a different story. I look at it as therapy. Although golf always 1st)

The best tip I got with this car was from my local Volvo mechanic. He told me to forget the manual. Change the oil every 3k and FLUSH and change the ATF every 20k He taught me the method they suggest at the bottom of the article on transmission service on Bay 13(I wish he told me that before I had to have the transmission replaced)

I tell you I just did a semi major tune up on it (cleaned and replaced flame trap, cleaned throttle body, cleaned egr valve, replaced thermostat, spark plugs, wires, rotor, distributor, changed oil, changed brake fluid and did a coolant flush and change.) When it is running well it is an awsome car. I don't want to give it back to him.

Different car? Different problems!

Bacuse my resale value is less than what I owe. Believe me, I would part with this car in a heartbeat if I could. I will never buy another Volvo again. This has been the biggest mechanical nightmare I have ever owned and has cost me thousands to keep on the road. Every potential problem these cars are know for I have had.
--
96 850 GLT 5-Speed

1
3
5
8
9
10
11 I find it easy to work on also. As far as the things I've done are concerned.
MAYBE a T5 or R.

I just bought a 850 Sedan for my wife, and safety was the Prime Consideration.
I was involved in a car accident which totalled my 4Runner after christmas.
Had me very worried about the car my family was driving around in (1990
Integra).


We have only had it for a couple weeks and are HOPING for a minimum of
repairs in the upcoming years (it is a 1996 base model with 73k).

It hasnt taken long for me to want to dump the Integra for another Volvo,
a wagon for ME to drive. We love the feel, look, styling and importantly
the safety. I do wish the sedan's gas mileage was a bit better(18 in town
and 27 highway), but it will have to do.

so...

3, 9, 10 and yeah, given my new found experience with Volvos I
will probably buy another. Knock on wood!

-jas
--
1996 850 Sedan. Looking to add a Volvo Wagon soon.

I OWN TWO 850'S A 93 AND A 97, DOUBLE THE TROUBLE

1
3
5
10

MABEY A T5-R OR AN R

1-(it's not worn out, yet)-3-7-8-9-(the seats)

Yes/No... But how about "Maybe"? If Ford sold Volvo to Nissan to raise cash, I might.

-Punxsutawney Phil

1, 3, 9, NO

richr

1, 3, 11, and "NO".

~Gerald C