I have driven 240 volvos for 25 years, and I am having a hard time finding a choice 240, so now I am considering an 850, and I would like a general consensus from the people that drive them, but most of all the people that work on them too. I have always done ALL of my own work on the 240's, and they are the simplest cars to work on. I am looking at a 1997 with 53000 miles on it for 14000 dollars. I will probably try to talk them down at least 1000 dollars. I don't want a turbo, as I feel they are more complicated, and I don't need the added expense, engine wear, and complication. I have never been a big fan of front wheel drive, so this is a big decision for me. So whats the scoop?

I concur with Punxsutawney Phil's analysis.

Have a '96 850 Wagon, N/A, Manual, w/85,000 miles, owned since new (bought new from dealer in August, 1997)

Just this past weekend the car started making a loud banging sound from the rear-right suspension. Discovered that the upper shock mount had broken. I looked at that mount and said, so why did they design a rubber-bonded mount to live half it's life in full tension? Another dumb Volvo design.

I've had all the standard failures, save the A/C evaporator and the rear main seal, so, I guess, I should feel lucky. I take impeccable care of my car (3,000 mile oil changes, park and walk from the far spot in the parking lot, jump on problems when they occur), yet --

Oil burner (now a quart every 300 miles--every Saturday morning)
Occassional noisy lifters
Air pump and air valve replacement
Broken door welds (infuriating)
Engine stabilizer bushing
Window switch cluster
Cup holder
Roll bar ends
Vacuum elbow leaks
Dash lights (several times)
Headlamps and brake lights (many, many times)
Rear shock mount
Reversing switch
Brake switch
Auto-down relay
ABS
Thermostat
Overflow tank cap
Rear door struts
Rims (original steel rims are weak)

Those are some of the unexpected failures. That does not include tuneup and brake stuff.

My Acura, in contrast, has about 50,000 miles on it, and had a single brake lamp problem in that timeframe.

You know, in the '60s, people bought Jaguars for their panache. They were beautiful cars, but . . .
In the '90s we bought 850s. They are beautiful cars and they fit a particular nitch. But, after spending many, many, hours working on mine, I've concluded that they are maitenance hogs.

My '98 is right at 120,000 miles. I had a couple of Saabs previously, and still have an old Porsche. The Volvo is no worse, take that any way you want. I never would have bought mine if it didn't have FWD or a manual transmission!

Safe, practical, comfortable seats, with 0-60 times in the mid 6s, it's a lot of fun to drive. The engine still uses no oil, the 5-speed manual transmission still shifts like new and the clutch is the original one. Reliable? NEVER! Expensive to run? Worse than the Porsche! I've experienced 2 rides on a AAA flatbed within the last year. See Kino Velez's 850 Survey HERE and click on the "survey" tab on the lower right corner. After 6 years and 120,000 miles I'm convinced that most every item on the survey will occur with my car, eventually, except for the automatic transmission problems, and that's only because I don't have an automatic transmission.

Meanwhile, my wife's Honda has had all of 2 brake light bulbs replaced in the last 50,000 miles.

My first and last Volvo, probably my last Eurocar, also.

At 14k the price seems awfully high. Some problems, perhaps most, seem to be a result of the car just aging, not the mileage. DEFINITELY get a turbo, except for the $3 oil return line "o" ring they're no more trouble and the turbo at least makes the car a lot more fun to drive. It's major redeeming feature. If the car hadn't been fun I would have sold it down the Mississippi years ago!

-Punxsutawney Phil

'98 V70T5M, 120k mi., iPd stabilizer bars, Volvo strut tower brace and skidplate, Valentine-1, Mobil-1 always, e-code headlight lenses

'86 944NA (that OTHER 944) 58k mi., factory HD sway bars and Fuchs forged wheels, Valentine-1. e-code Hellas, Yokohama AVS ES100s

I must consider myself lucky then, because I have had none of those problems in 75,000 miles on my 97 850-R.

You must have gotten a lemon. Sorry to see that.

Maybe a lemon, at first I thought they were drunk when they built my car, but I've discovered it's fairly typical based on the posts here, the Consumer Reports surveys and Kino's Volvo surveys.

http://kinovolvo.velez.ws/ and pick up the April issue of Consumer Reports. Since both the hundreds of Volvo owners who completed Kino's surveys and the hundreds if not thousands of respondants to the Consumer Reports surveys have been checking exactly the same boxes for years there's probably something to it.

I've been lucky. Worst out-of-warranty repair has been under $500, That is, so far. The UNLUCKY owners of 850-70s have oil burners, head crashes, replaced air pumps, ABS modules, transmission replacements, etc.

I drive 25,000 miles annually and have 45,000 more miles on my car than you have on yours. Have some patience, you'll see what happens. If you make it to the magic 150,000 without any of this stuff happening to yours consider yourself truly blessed.

-Punxsutawney Phil

If you're not going with a turbo 850 and are not a fan of front wheel drive, don't do an 850 at all. Go with a '90 or newer 940 sedan or wagon. Turbo. I've had my '95 850 turbo wagon since Jan '02 and haven't had any of the major issues folks often complain about here. I have had to replace 02 sensor, the turbo oil return pipe's O-ring and gasket and upper engine mount bushing. All easy and cheap.

Then I decided to buy an '88 745t with M46 manual. Lots of fun but of course not as refined as the 850. Not as complicated and no where near as expensive to repair either. Lack of electronics is a huge plus in my book.

I bought the 745t for $1700 with 183,000 miles on it. Runs great and I've had to fix a couple of minor things but this car's issues are VERY well documented on this sites 700/900 FAQ. (Brickboard is in dire need of an 850 FAQ imho) I've been trying to sell my 855t since January. I bought it with 85,000 miles for $11,500. Local car and all records. I've listed it now for $9,000 (92,000 miles) and still not a single caller.

The rate of depreciation these cars suffer is incredible. When I bought it my buying price was inline with the blue book. A year an a half later the book is at $8700. Seeing how soft the used car market is and how little trouble I've had with this one, I'm faced with considering keeping it and selling the 745t just because I can't stand to lose my shirt. Sitting in the shaded driveway the seatback cable stopped working and the rubber trim strips that run from the windsheild to the rear liftgate have split.

The asking price for the car you're looking at is too high. Offer 10k if you must have it, and have it evaluated by an independent Volvo shop or dealer service dept. Look for things like A/C evaporator leaks, burnt tranny fluid, compression, condition of shock and strut mounts, alignment, all electrical system functions and have the ECU scanned for codes.

BTW, dealer servicing is not neccessarily a good thing. My car was 100% dealer serviced and I've found ample evidence of the engine being pulled (tranny was replaced under warranty at 56k). Nuts and bolts missing, cables not routed correctly etc. I've taken care of all that.

Regards,
Erwin Roman
Memphis
--
Erwin in Memphis, '88 745t 183,000 miles, '95 855t For Sale

I am the original owner of a 1995 850 turbo sedan.

Fun car to drive, fast, safe, solid.

As far as reliability - the 850 is a piece of garbage. Buy the car and spend all your time tinkering and fixing it.

IMHO- drop the price another 3K at least.

Wow--again, you must have been unlucky enough to get a lemon. I have seen none of those issues with my 97 850-R. I simply have been putting in gas, paying insurance and doing scheduled maintenance, nothing more. My antenna recently broke, but that was no big deal.

It is a piece of garbage. My car is a money pit.

I BOUGHT MY 97 850 GLT TURBO LAST YEAR WITH 45K MILES ON HER WITH A 3YR/36K MILE WARRENTY FROM VOLVO OF HOUSTON FOR ABOUT 13500. CHECK THE BLUE BOOK VALUE, THE PRICE SEEMS KINDA HIGH TO ME.

DAN

I got an 850 GLT last summer. 97 with 73,000 miles. The service records were impeccable. The fit and finish were very good other than expected driver seat wear and needing new front tires (the rears were like new). Got him down to $13,600 and I considered it a very good deal. You didn't say, but for $14K it should be a turbo.

I do all my own "minor" work. Things like headlamp lens replacement, Upper engine bushing, instrument cluster lamps, etc.). For other things like timing belt, engine seals, etc., when needed, will be done by either Volvo shop, or Volvo mechanic.

If the vehicle you are looking at has very good service records, good tires and the fit and finish are good to very good, I don't think $14K is that bad of a deal. It does also depend on where you are. I'm in Oregon and everything there costs too much :-)

The "formal" written offer I made for $14,500 that he wanted, was contingent on the vehicle passing OR DEQ testing, new head light lens, new front tires and front end alignment. That's when he went to $13,600. It cost me $260 to fix those items.

I love the darned car. It's my LMLCC... little mid-life crisis car :-) My daughter (14 years old) has already laid claim to it when she turns 16... do I see a S80 in my future :-)

symo

I have a '97 850 GLT. The car has 78K on it and so far has been a pretty good car. Compared to the car it replaced (245), the vehicle has been reliable with only some minor problems. Compared to my old 245, this car is much better and more fun to drive.

If you adhere too the maintenance standards for the vehicle, you should be okay.



Don

If you are used to the snail acceleration of the 240, then don't worry about getting a turbo 850. Get a GLT or regular 850.

I never liked any rear wheel drive Volvo I ever drove. They are some of the most abbysmal driving cars in winter weather, the steering is ponderous at best, and I never found them all that comfortable.

My 96 850 turbo sedan on the other hand has wonderful steering, reasonable gas mileage, handles well in snow, and is extremely comfortable. In addition, the 850's engine bay is a cavern with plenty of room to work in.

I have had no worse reliability with the 850 than my previous car, a Honda Accord. I have 83,000 miles and so far, knock on wood, rear main seal is dry as a bone, A/C evap is a OK, ABS control unit is functioning, and my turbo drain seal is dry. These are the core issues with the 850 and I haven't had any trouble so far. The only other common issue with these cars is the top motor mount which I had to replace at 80,000.

I love this car!!!! It is by far the most well balanced car in terms of cost against luxury and performance out there.

My wife & I have put over 220K on her '90 240. I recently needed to replace my SUV and bought a '98 V70 XC. All the problems I'd read about nearly scared me off but the price was right so we went for it. I've always done all my own repairs and am still a bit apprehensive about the XC. I may have to rely on the dealer occasionally but I think I'll be fine for most things like brakes, exhaust or tuneup. After getting familiar with the car I can say it's extremely well built. One of the techs at my dealer claims over 400K on his 850 without ever having the head off. The ride is nice, much quieter than a 240, the handling is incredible and so is the power. The light pressure turbo shouldn't scare you if it was well maintained. Parts can be expensive on all modern cars but I don't think Volvo is any worse than average. Reliability is another story but I have every single dealer service record on our XC and it doesn't look too bad except for the AC evap core ($$$$). Sway bar links seem to be a biennial replacement item but they're cheap and easy to R&R. 240's are known for their tight turning radius and the 850/V70 doesn't compare there but it's no big deal. As someone who drives a 240 and a V70, the V70 seems to be a great car. I don't think you'll be dissapointed but you may have to rely on the dealer occasionally. Like any used car - but especially a Volvo - buy one that was well taken care of. It's worth the extra $.

The price is high, but if they can prove to you that the dealership did the work then that is not a problem. I just picked up a 96 GLT with 192,000 from the local dealers service mgr with all the services done at Volvo. It's real important with the newer technology to be sure they haven't mucked up any of the electronics. These cars will set 'codes' for the wierdest things and it may not show up until months later. Like if you were changing the calipers and you have the ignition on(not like you would do that) and you spin the wheel..... you get a code. And resetting them is a pain.
All said, I love mine. I disagree that it is not a quiet car or rides poorly. I love the ride. The Turbo would be better but if the one you are looking at doesn;t have it, so be it. Again, just be sure the services have been done. For the timing belt service that was due at 70,000 and everything else, you are looking at $800. Add some brakes and other stuff, and you are looking at $1,000. So keep that in mind when haggling.
By the way, 96 & 97 are pretty good years for the 850.

Marty

I have a 760 and an 850 .

the 850 rides hard
turning radius is terrible if you are use to RWD Volvo's
The A/C will most likely give you trouble.
Cabin isn't very quiet .
After all that , I love mine .
The 760 has 220000 miles on it and will look to pick up another 850 soon .

If I were you, I'd at least think about getting a turbo. It seems that most people with turbo's really like them, and some people with non-turbo's wish they would've gotten a turbo. I haven't seen any comments on this board or anywhere else suggesting that the turbo's cause any additional problems. I have a light pressure turbo (97 GLT) and I love the performance, especially after 13 years with my somewhat sluggish 240!

I don't work on cars AT ALL, but I think the general consensus is that the 850's are more complicated cars, have more expensive repairs than the 240's, and may be somewhat less reliable than the 240's. That said, I haven't had any problems with mine, and I'm very happy with it so far.

I agree with P.E. I have a T5 (high pressure) with about 75K no major problems with turbo (had to replace the oil return gasket). Am waiting for the A/C to fail - it still blows ice cold and is under warranty until 96K or July 2004. Keep the oil changed and make sure to let the car idle a while before shutting it down. For lower than $14K you could get a '97 (better model year) with a turbo, if you can find one.

Good luck