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that you're not playing in a rigged game:
Late trading may be more widespread than thought
By Scott Bernard Nelson, Globe Staff, 9/12/2003
Illegal after-hours trading in mutual funds, which has spawned a large and growing number of federal and state investigations over the past week, may be more widespread than previously thought and may cost shareholders $400 million a year, according to a Stanford University study.
Stanford economist Eric Zitzewitz analyzed the trading records of 104 mutual fund families, and yesterday said he had identified at least 16 with after-hours price changes "highly suggestive" of illegal trading. He did not identify individual funds or fund companies, which he said was the deal he had to make to access the data.
Zitzewitz said the practice appears to be more widespread in international mutual funds than in ones focused on US stocks. He found evidence of late trading in the international funds of 15 out of 50 fund families he analyzed, compared with domestic funds in only 12 of 96 instances.
Late traders purchase mutual fund shares after the supposed 4 p.m. close of the market, gaming the system and virtually guaranteeing themselves a profit. They typically trade based on news released after the market closes or on the direction the futures markets indicate the next day's open will take.
Some in the mutual fund world, though, expressed doubts that so many funds allow the clearly illegal practice to flourish under their noses.
"I think that to suggest that a significant part of the fund industry is either party to [late trading] or subject to it strains credulity," said Burt Greenwald, a mutual fund consultant in Philadelphia.
"Are there a few rogue people out there trying to break the laws?" Greenwald asked. "I don't think there's any question about that. But not 15 percent or 30 percent of the fund universe."
However, Zitzewitz, a visiting professor at Columbia University this academic year, said he can think of only two reasons why large numbers of trades in some fund families closely followed the Chicago Mercantile Exchange's S&P 500 futures price -- information that wouldn't have been available until after the 4 p.m. close.
"It's either got to be late trading or people are doing insider trading with mutual funds, in order to avoid detection," he said. "Just from the patterns of where the late trading was, an insider trading story just doesn't make sense."
Late trading in fund shares is one of the two practices that led New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer to fine the Canary Capital Partners hedge fund $40 million last week, and launch a broad investigation of the mutual fund industry.
The other practice in question is market timing, or jumping in and out of international or small-cap funds, frequently in less than 24 hours, to make quick profits. The practice isn't illegal, but it violates rules most fund families have in place to shield buy-and-hold investors from added costs and volatility.
Massachusetts securities regulators launched an investigation into the Boston office of Prudential Securities last week, also, and the Securities and Exchange Commission and the National Association of Securities Dealers followed suit. The SEC also sent letters to the industry's major mutual fund firms seeking information about their policies and procedures designed to limit late trading and market timing.
Published reports yesterday indicated that Bank of America has fired two employees who were reportedly involved in deals with Canary Capital. A company spokesman last night, though, said he couldn't confirm those reports.
Yesterday was not the first time Zitzewitz's name has been connected with the growing scandal. Spitzer referred to the economist's research on market timing in court documents earlier this week.
Using trading data from TrimTabs Investment Research, the Stanford professor said his research showed that the drag created by market timers costs average shareholders in international mutual funds 1 percent to 2 percent of their assets each year. All told, Zitzewitz said, market timing costs buy-and-hold investors $5 billion extra each year.
Yesterday, he said his regression analysis indicates that late trading costs average investors only $400 million a year. Still, he said that's a significant amount of money for something that fund companies can monitor relatively easily -- as, he said, his research suggests.
"It does turn out that market timing is a much bigger deal in how much it affects the average investor, because it's more common and you're doing it off bigger market movements," Zitzewitz said. "But they're twin things, and allowing late trading is a violation of fiduciary responsibilities."
Mark Goshko, a securities lawyer at the Boston firm Kirkpatrick & Lockhart, said the past week's activity might be a wake-up call for mutual fund companies. In many cases, he said, fund companies probably didn't monitor things closely enough to realize late trading and market timing were happening.
"It is entirely possible that a fund company could have that type of activity going on and they wouldn't necessarily be complicit," Goshko said. "I can easily envision situations where brokers could have engaged in this type of activity, and in the ordinary course of business the fund company just wouldn't know."
Scott Bernard Nelson can be reached at nelson@globe.com.
© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Samurai Jack
on
Thu Dec 4 07:25 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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"Illegal after-hours trading in mutual funds, which has spawned a large and growing number of federal and state investigations over the past week, may be more widespread than previously thought and may cost shareholders $400 million a year, according to a Stanford University study."
As of 1999, 48.4 million US households owned mutual funds. So that "$400 million a year" represents all of $8.27 per US household.
People are already going to jail for this.
But if $8.27 per year (or 2 1/2 CENTS per day) makes a significnt difference in your life you have my sympathy.
As for Martha Stewart's ImClone, the stock's market capitalization peaked at about $5 BILLION, last I could find it was about $503 MILLION, or representing a loss of $4.5 BILLION; the reason that Martha Stewart attracted the interest of prosecutors is because the losses associated with ImClone were FIVE TIMES AS LARGE as this latest mutual fund scandal.
I wouldn't DREAM of listening to any "expert" when it comes to finance and investing. I do my own homework.
If you can't understand the process either learn about it or play the State Lottery.
-Samurai Jack
"Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it." -Will Rogers
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I don't invest in private industry. It is a rigged game, when the parasites and money changers come around to rape me it is a forced rape; I don’t bend over voluntarily for it. Government bonds only for me. I simply plan on working 10 years beyond retirement age, and live frugally now. Besides, even US Government bonds might not be worth anything soon enough.
Below you will find a very interesting website about the European Union. It appears as though the EU is coalescing into the world's next Super-Power, 300 million strong, perhaps declaring Statehood soon. I suspect within the next 50 years it will be the EU vs. China...
It will be the EU sending troops in the US for Human Rights violation such as criminally low minimum wages, inadequate health care coverage for the poor, fraudulent elections, etc.. Maybe they will have a deck of cards with all the “leaders” of this once great Nation. One can only wait and hope…times they are a changin’
http://europa.eu.int/index_en.htm
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Fri Dec 5 05:06 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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First of all, Europe has always been a major economic power during the 20th Century, in spite of being devastated by 2 world wars. Especially Western Europe. Germany alone accounts for more than 7% of the Global GDP. It has always fascinated me to no end that while we were still stuck in the mud of depression and *letting the market* sort it out, that Germany was on his way. FDR had some good plans, but they couldn't over come the corp malfeasance that had been going on.
Of course, the FED seemed to do some of the most assanigned things, but I won't go there right now.
Yes, Europe did what it did becuase it recognized it had to keep itself on the upper hand with the US. What they are showing in their UNion is a willingness to have beetr fiscal management, and one of the criteria was a national fiscal debt ratio that had to be below a certain level or they couldn't join. This was one of the big hold ups for Greece and Italy, though they made it. Our gov't doesn't seem to feel the need to be quite so draconian with its expenditures currently, but it is still not as bad as one or two of the EU natiosns. They have also deomstrated a willingness to deepen the nature of the legal commerce structures more than we are, say in NAFTA.
But never forget, even with China, that 86% of the world's wealth lies with 20% of the people, and all those people are in the West, except for Japan. And this has increased, ot decreased, over the last decade.
As for Cina, they have what they have because of US. 150 Years the Brits were saying that CHina was a coming market...but where has it been? In the shitter. The level of pverty in China is so great that the GDP would have to grow by 20% to keep up with the population. It isn't coming close. And until that gov't collapses, they won't get much further.
No, the power isn't going to shift *away* so much from the US, it is just shifting into the hands of multinationals who happen to live in the West. And as long as life and infrastructure is good in the West, that where the owners/aganets will stay.
But this defcit running of the Republicans is so bogus. A tax handout to the wealthy...
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240 Allison,
Great post, yes, it seems the those evil “socialist” (a name given to a society when it mandates ALL members be responsible to it) Europeans are gathering strength. What will be a big factor in the US is if the strangle hold the Corporations have on the US will be terminal. We’ve seen what could be the beginning of the end of American Democracy in 2000 for the first time in American history an un-elected and illegitimate regime is controlling the country. And what a wonderful job they are doing….
With the Media reporting Bush’s approval rating now at 60% (I suspect this is a fabrication of the wealthy right, the ones who own the media) the passage of the Patriot Act, the war, the pilfering of Public funds, etc. anyone who is not totally indoctrinated should see that there is a serious problem.
Who knows, maybe those white colored armored vehicle with the letters “UN” painted across them will be touring your home town soon. Maybe we’ll be “Liberated”...if given the choice between the UN or the Republicans, I'll take the UN thanks.
JCM
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Sun Dec 7 03:50 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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It happened with Taft. Interesteing, another Republican and a fascist one at that.
I am not pleased with this admin, but nor do I think US multi-nationals have the monopoly on corp malfeasance. In fact, there are things the US has done much better than Europe in the past regarding Banking structures and Equities structure, and it has paid off. I don't like to see us breaking down thos barriers towards the European way of doing business on that.
Europeans are very capitalistic people. They simply choose to do a few things differently within their society. For reasons in which I believe they had to. Socialized healthcare and so forth did not happen until after WWII. Even Hitler didn't have social healthcare, or anything esle. His gov't was about as social as my left toe.
However, do not mistake me for one minute regarding industry. I absolutely believe in geting as close to a free market as possible. But I believe in designing laws to level the playing field, strict monitoring of the rules by gov't, and severe punishments and liabilities for those who cheat. Wealthy individuals do not pay so much a higher % in taxes, they just happen to pay more becuase they have more. Well, thats the way it goes. You pay those taxes to have the society we live in, with FEMA, and the latest hospitals with well trainied doctors...By the way, those doctors get their training by working on those indigents so they don't screw up when they get to YOU who CAN pay.
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posted by
someone claiming to be MittenHed
on
Thu Dec 4 09:15 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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You can work ten years past retirement if you want to. Maybe you like working. Me? There are too many places where the sun shines to spend much more of my life working.
MittenHed on personal differences: We are all different, that is how our SOs can tell us apart when we get home.
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"want to work"? no way man, it's just the least offensive way for me to find food and shelter. I could go grab a piece of card board and stand on the I-5 on ramp claiming a willingness to work for food...but after the bills are paid I pretty much am working for food so why carry the sign and stand out in the rain?
We all owe society some input, but I wouldn't mind shaving that down to about half time so I could play with my kids more.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Peter Penguin
on
Thu Dec 4 03:40 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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I'm amazed that everyone wants Martha Stewart in jail so bad, when virtually every day of the year there are 1,000's of infractions that equal or exceed hers.
Must be some kind of witchhunt thing.
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She’s just the snippy power hungry self-righteous bitch that chooses to put her ugly mug in front of the TV every day, that's why the Public is after her. If it weren’t for the woefully unjust and immoral divorce laws that allowed her to raid and pilfer her husband’s bank account on her way out of the marriage we would never have heard of her, she simply wouldn’t have had enough money to attain celebrity status.
Jcm
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Fri Dec 5 04:52 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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I am angry……but not an attorney
I just fail to see why person A gets unfettered access to person B's wallet just because they had been married at some point. If these laws were done away with many women would be more motivated to create their own lives instead of waiting to marry rich and divorce young.
Same idea with child support. This is one of the VERY FEW areas where I feel bad for wealthy people. Why should Child Support payments be based on the income level of the non-custodian parent? My kid costs $X per day for food, shelter, clothes, etc…as does Bill Gates’ kid, no difference. We both should pay the same amount of support, taking into consideration locality of the woman at the time she got pregnant (this way she can’t get an address in Beverly Hills and get more money) Why should the custodial parent be allowed to bilk the non-custodial parent out of say $20,000 a month just because he/she happens to earn a lot of money? If these laws were cleaned up and the recipient of the support (Mom or Dad) had to actually demonstrate the money was spent on the child there would be far fewer “accidental” pregnancies….hell in my home town getting pregnant is one of the career paths for young girls.
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Sun Dec 7 03:59 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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And I have my suspecions regarding your real name....
1) MOst women do NOT marry for money. Those days are rapidly dissappearing. And perhaps while you feel like *thrusting * women into the correc marriages you can kindly support the initiatives for woemn to make the same money as men as they are qualified to. Most women leave the workforce beucase they and only they, can have the children, and frequnetly companies punish them for that. They also get paid less than the guy, so it is rational to let the male make most of the money. So now, the women gets divorced while said guy is off playing with the 15 year younger secretary, and the wife is suddenly supposed to become impoverished after doing what was best for the family? I don't think so. He can put some cash on the line until she gets onto her feet again. I am not saying she should get the lion's share, but a meagre payment of a couple hundred dollars a month aint ok.
2)Weather the male is wealthy or poor, he is the father of those children. The END. Getting out of your marriage is not a getting out of parenthood contract. So why should your kids have nothing becuase you and mom don't get on anymore? Boy, you are the typical schmuck who wants to just drop his repsonsibilities and leave them for someone else. You are punishing the kids now.
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240,
Sorry about the late response.
I agree with your position in regards to a couple that had been married for years and both worked together as a team to build up their standard of living. When the marriage ends things should be divided up 50/50, and the children should be kept at a standard of living that they are accustomed to.
What I don't agree with is when a one night stand turns into a life long gravy train ride for mom. That does indeed encourage some women to go out and get knocked up. If you think it doesn't, you are naive.
If the people involved in a break-up were not married there should be 0 alimony and minimal child support. This way people would be forced to think twice before shacking up.
JCM
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Last time I checked it took a penis or a turkey baster to produce a pregnancy at home. Not only that, it takes a nice excited penis to make a baby.
Seems like I remember getting in to a young girls panties is a career path for many young men, with football just a tad behind and baseball waaay behind. Just look at television, literature, and art through the ages. I find it interesting that rape is used as a thematic through the ages in the visual arts. Ruben's "The Rape of the Daughters of Leucippus" is a great example of the "romance" of a good old fashioned "ravishing". No one is putting a gun to the head of these guys who get girls and women pregnant. A gun to a guy's head would seriously impair his ability to "perform". With a woman it can be a passive thing, but with a guy it is not. I won't even start to quote rape and date rape stats. A woman who is the victim of date rape risks not finishing her education, and statistically spends her life earning less than other women. If she ends the pregnancy tofinish school she is a "baby killer".
My mom got pregnant with me at 17 and had me 5 days after her 18th birthday. My parents were too young and too immature to deal with a kid. They eloped when they found out my mother was pregnant, then instantly got divorced. I grew up never seeing my father more than 3 times a year, with him often not showing up when he said hewould. The $50 a month child support didn't pay for my upbringng, or not having a father.
As for the cost of child support. You really can't expect Bill Gates to pay the same as aguy who works at the Mc Donald's with no benefits. For one thing, if a child is living the life of more abundance, and perhaps going to aprivate school it seems suddenly ripping that kkid out of his/her environment is quite excessive. they have enought to deal with at the time.
I know a family who is listed in the top 100 of the wealthiest individuals in the country. There is a divorce going on, with kids involved. It doesn't matter who the family is, it is still terribly hard on the kids. I think they need keeping as many things as possible consistant in thier lives. The kids I know are so sad, angry and confused. The last thing they need is to have morechanges and unknowns. The non-custodial parent can afford to keep her/his kids in the same environment they have thus far grown up in. What is wrong with that?
--
Sensual Ascetic. Three Volvos. Average age 32.7 years. No damn cupholders. Good wine.
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--
Sensual Ascetic. Three Volvos. Average age 32.7 years. No damn cupholders. Good wine.
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posted by
someone claiming to be MittenHed
on
Fri Dec 5 14:17 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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You are one squared away dude! Got the whole world fingered out, eh? Take a deep breath and sit down. There is something that you need to hear. Don't explode, just give it some thought.
People take advantage of other people, and sometimes it seems that lawyers and the law facilitate this. It also happens that the laws in question were created to prevent people from doing each other terrible wrongs and "getting away with it".
Find the source of your anger and deal with it. The world isn't going to change for you, you will have to adapt or fail to thrive. It's not too late. You don't have to "sell out", just go with it.
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mitt-
why 'conform' to our society and make it on your own when a person can bitch and moan about how 'evil' things are when you are compared to the virtues/values/etc of another. isn't it easier to play monday morning quarterback and waiting/expecting/hoping for government to come along and make EVERYTHING, EVERYONE a singular level playing field???
competition is hard and difficult because you actually see how you compare or stack up to the rest of society. it's the same measure as when you stand naked in front of a mirror and look squarely at the picture presented. on the other hand, why work hard and compete when you can have BIG BROTHER GOV'T hold a gun to the productive's head, take from them and ive to those who don't want to work but to only bitch about how bad it is here in america and pine away for the days of hitler and stalin (watch at how this sentence will be raped and pillaged.)
bubba
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what...???...me worry??
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Sun Dec 7 04:09 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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I most certainly DO get annoyed at people expecting the gov't to make everything *right*.
The point of an even playing field is not to hand out money necessarily, its to create a circumstance in which everybody has the same rules to play by. ONly THEN do you have real competition.
DO not even THINK for one minute that there is an even playing field, and that just becuase someone is born poor that they are somehow not handicapped compared to some rich kid. So, what, we try and offer a good education? What does a ighschool education buy you any more? Actually, thats one of the best things about the military; they WILL pay for your education and you can go a long way after you serve, if you survive.Do you really think that if Bush had been born in a lower income family he would be where he is today? Certainly not if he just was depending on his brains and whiles.
You know, most of the people in the fortune 500 are rarely born with the wealth of the MEllons. They generally come form solid middle-upper middle class backgrounds. With enough financial support to get the education they need form day one, but low enough to really neeed to work to build something bigger. Thats a good sign, becuase it does mena that obviously our tax structure is not enough to stop people from going after billions. It also means that people from the bottom don't ave much of a shot,becuase they didn;t grow up in an eduatced family.
There's no equal playing filed. If there were, all people in Enron would be in jail.
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*applause* *applause* *cheer* *cheer*
my how you have taken the lock-step mantra of the ultra left and made your daily rant(chant.) very good. i am impressed. you have however overlooked those who take the drive and ambition from the LOWER-class and better themselves to become and BE better than what they came from. poverty in this country for the most part is a mental disease and nothing more. i came from the lowest of lowclass but now i am in mid to upper-class. i have/had the desire to be better. i can see why i made the statement that it's a mental disease because i lived it. if you just accept yourself and surroundings, you will stay where you are. if you cahllenge them and not accept it, then you get yourself into the evil COMPETITION and lo' and behold, you've bettered yourself and are doing better than where you came from. for every far fetched crap you can pull like this statement, i can match it just the same for my side.
good night....
--
what...???...me worry??
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Sun Dec 7 15:25 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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**clap clap, *applause* *applause*
Oh, I am sure you have all the ultra right wing bullshit. Like, the rich pay all the ills and taxes and get nothing in return. That if we had not public schools, healthcare, and some basic social servies,. the whole wolrd would be this chaeery place with SO mucn more genreal health and joy.
Which makes me wonder if have ever read the story of people Cooper, a real Heartio Alger story.Copper donated unbeleiveable amounts of money to libraries, schools, art galleries, becuase he recognized that the poor needed them.
I have not overlooked those who make it no matter what. You know, I almost put that statement in there. Its sort of like, just becuase someone is born into violence doesn't always mean they will grow up abusive and violent themselves.
But statistically, they do. And whether you like to admit it or not, statistically, people in poverty do NOT move onto bigger and better things, though some do manage to escape abject overty. Obviously you are one of them. Or so you claim. I wonder if you made it on public education, or through some other means. How much did you pay for personally?
Sorry Tom, you'll never manage to put ,me into the left no matter how hard you try. You can read my latest paper if you have the leisure. Oh, ah, you mean I make an argument based on real facts and math and modeling that maybe doesn't agree with the ultra right? Yes, I do.In one of the most conservative universities in the nation.
I am not
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and just when did i say the rich pay all the bills and taxes??? even though it has been PROVEN time and time again by the IRS, you've just stepped in line with the left-wing wacko's mantra yourself. as typical of you lefties, don't read inot or between what i say. what i say is exactly what i mean.
i don't have a problem for social services for the poor AS LONG AS THEY ARE POOR. i do have a problem when i see people using the plastic EBT cards (instead of food stamps so they don't 'feel' ashamed) and walk around in designer duds, buying nice expensive cuts of meat, getting into a very nice car with as many options that you can attach to it and driving home to a rent controlled apt/home and next month EXPECTING the same. the welfar state of this country has suddenly become an expectation for life instead of a helping hand.
don't give me this 'statistically' garbage either. you and i both know that every statistic you give me, i can spin it to work in my favor as well.
yes, i made it on public education. when my wife and i moved to texas to attend school, we were POOR. to the point that i accepted our ordeal, stepped out of school to work more and applied for food stamps temporarily until my paycheck came in. i was told at the welfare office that 'sorry, you can attend school and therefore do not qualify......(and something alluding that i had the wrong last name to qualify anyway.) i know what it's like to work 10 hour days standing on concrete. i know what it's like to be be tickled to get a 15 cent raise. i know what it;s likje to live in a 5 room house (including bathroom) that was less than 700 sq. ft. so, let's not get into this tit-for-tat about 'or so you claim.' right now, i'm looking at over 80K for school debt for myself and wife so yeah, i carried myself. no scholarships (since we moved to georgia and that kicked me out of many by not being a resident.)
but i guess i am an 'evil' money grubber. in building my home, several skilled craftsman were paid handsomely for their troubles. that money went to their families and the economy. my wife and i drive nice cars that were built by skilled craftsmen. that money went home and to the local economy. fuel for those cars, heating and A/C for the home, PRIVATE school for my son, personal care thingies for the wife, hobbies for myself, etc., etc. i am a CONSUMER and that means my money goes to others and into the economy to help push it that much further. i've learned to play the game and reap handsomely from it. i have not sat by bitching about everything in life that I have not STRIVED for and then blame others when they have succeded.
since i have made strides in my life, i tend to hold other to the same standard. i don't sugar-coat it and i never will. too many people have learned to play the victim card and now expect that society owes them something. since when is it my responsibility financially for someone else's problems unless I decide i want to become involved??
--
what...???...me worry??
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posted by
someone claiming to be MittenHed
on
Thu Dec 4 09:21 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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I probably can't.
What's your problem with successful people?
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Martha isn't a woman....she is a robot!
MH:
It depends on what you mean by "successful". A lot of people who I think are successful don't have any money. Conversely, many wealthy people I have dealt with have been scum-bag low lives who make money a priority in their lives, and just like people who make alcohol, heroin or sex a priority in their lives they are ultimately miserable because of the futility of their pursuit, and have usually hurt many other peoples on their journey to no where.
Remember, ability to accumulate capital is just that; an ability to accumulate capital - not some kind of badge, or indicator of validity.
Generally speaking you don't get rich by accident, it usually involves a lot of under-handed evil shit, or evil under-handed shit having been done by your predecessors...
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Sun Dec 7 04:19 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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I really do, and he'd kcik your ass from here to the next kingdom.
One was born into good upper middle class money. He certainly did not have what most poor kids do today. He got an incredible education for the time, considering he was born in 1898. Went to VMI, was an officer in WWI, came home got a Master in Econ. Then we started having some recession issues, so he went to spain, and was hired by an American bank. He saw the depression coming, and his father lost everyhting except pretty much his hme. GDad managed to save it for him, and save his mother's money. Not becuase he cheated, lied, or stole, but because HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING!!
He ultimately became one of th senior executives for what it now know as CITYGROUP. He ran SA ops and was in Cuba, where he also becuase head of the American Chamber of COmmerce. The man NEVER told a lie, NEVER stole, and if he caught you doing business like that, he would make sure you were fired. He screamed bloody murder every time he say Cuban wealthy cheating their people, stealing. He hated it, and knew it ws BAD FOR BUSINESS.
Not all people make their money by cheating.
Neither did my other grandfather, who was one of those people who really benefited from the TVA and FDR plans. He ultimately became an embassador and owned 2 differnt companies. He made a great deal of money working in equities, and he NEVER LIED OR CHEATED> He just knew what he was doing.And he did it all thanks to HIS ability. Their ethics have lived on in me.
No, they aren't filthy rich. But they have been secure and well off, due to their efforts.
Both of these mean were never arrogant, snobs, or smart asses. They didn't feel like they had a *badge* or anything else. They are/were cool, pragmatic, consientious spenders and people.
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are you that negative on life and pretty much everything in general except for the bygone days of stalin and hitler???? one world order, equal for everyone, no one is better than another and where the life-style and longevity are pretty much in the crapper. you seem to be of the perfect AND typical mindset of most of todays college professors. you hide behind the curtain of protection of free speech only to criticize everything that has to do with capitalization and a REPUBLIC. lately you have presented what seems to be a well thought out argument and laid your points/topis out nicely, but when all the venom is boiled out, all i see is a VERY insecure woman who has had some pretty shitty days delt to her. you're not alone. many here and in the country have had those same sh!tty days and possibly worse, but how you deal and cope with those days are what makes you who you are. no offense but you put forth a very negative and cynical front as to who you are and that, compounded on top of what you've already dealt with, is only continuing that self consuming cycle. you can make the best and most complete arguement you want, BUT when all is sifted through, you are in a cycle that you need to break or else you will ultimately pay for it. life is not as bad as you seem to put forth. competition (with all the nasty and negative) is not either. i truely hope you somday see that before it becomes too late for you.
i am an insurance salesman and i live my polical views daily. if i don't bust my hump EVERY DAY, my competition will beat me to the punch and get the sale. IF i can get an app't to see someone, i must present myself first as the best person i can and that opens the door for my product and company. the more doors i can open, the more
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what...???...me worry??
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posted by
someone claiming to be 240 Allison
on
Sun Dec 7 04:22 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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Try and not confuse them. The similarities were totalitarianism. Hitler had private industry and supported it. Stalin had state owned industry.
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Generally speaking you don't get rich by accident, it usually involves a lot of under-handed evil shit, or evil under-handed shit having been done by your predecessors...
That is the stupidest statement I have ever heard.
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90 744ti, Airbox, K/N, Cold air, G-Valve, Dual boost control, VDO, Modified exhaust.
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all you have to do is read the papers of those who supported stalin and hitler or any other petty dictator who wanted everyone on the same level for EVERYTHING and you'll know why this kind of statement can be made.
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what...???...me worry??
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It worked for them didn't it.
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90 744ti, Airbox, K/N, Cold air, G-Valve, Dual boost control, VDO, Modified exhaust.
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thank you Bryan for your chilling input, you bring the level of discussion at the board to new levels, now go back to your $6.00 an hour job and keep voting repulican...
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You mean there are jobs that pay 6.00 and hour. Heck where do I apply.
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90 744ti, Airbox, K/N, Cold air, G-Valve, Dual boost control, VDO, Modified exhaust.
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I work for and institution of higher learning does that count?
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90 744ti, Airbox, K/N, Cold air, G-Valve, Dual boost control, VDO, Modified exhaust.
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I think Martha Stewart is just a figurehead for the frustration that the average American without a whole lot of disposable income has for the entire system. Martha is someone with almost universal name recognition in this country, and what she did is comprehensible to people. It islike pulling one loose thread out and being able to study it in isolation. It it had been someone like George Cloony I think the reaction would be the same.
II have as many questions about the reports of her physically abusing her spouse. If true, I consider that serious also.
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Sensual Ascetic. Three Volvos. Average age 32.7 years. No damn cupholders. Good wine.
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