Hi all,

Currently I have an XC 1998 model with about 134.000 kms done.
It's getting time to buy another car and I have been looking at several options.
The new XC is out of sight, I don't like it and with the options I wanted it is getting extremely expensive.
At the dealer I have been offered 2 cars with a nice discount on both:

1 a V70 D5 manual driven with the Titanium pack (17" wheels), hands free telephone kit
or
2 a S60 2.5T AWD with geartronic, sport chassis, sport seats and winter pack, Nivomat and also handfree set.

My wife likes the V 70 because of it's storage ( we have 3 dogs) I personally would enjoy the AWD and 210 HP engine more.
Price is similar of both. The dealer has shown it's value through the years and always treated me superb.

However I had some problems with my XC, after 80.000 kms. the central diferential stopped doing his service and was renewed (expensive) also the ABS/Tracs control unit failed. Now I have one of my rear shocks leaking (Nivomat) and I had 3 sets of brake disks (no pads but disks) under my car (warped) as I like to drive my car as a motorcycle and brake hard and late.
The XC was bought when our kids were smaller and joined us every where, they now have their own car or motorcycle and rarely join us. The downside of the XC was for me the too plush and vague ride and the eternal vibration problem.
Vibrations stoppped for a while when I got my new center dif but lasted only 10.000 kms to be as it was.
Still I'm not sure that this is inherit to Volvo's AWD or only the XC suffered it.
My other options are the Saab Aero 9-5 230 TS (250 HP wagon), the Audi a-4 2,5 Tdi (180 HP) quattro or the Subary Legacy 3.0L H-6. Also Saab offers a 15% discount which makes this 9-5 Wagon with almost available options the brand offers similar in price as the S 60 AWD. The Audi is a bit more expensive but the difference is not big.
The Saab has a lot of power but handling is difficult on not smooth surfaces and ,mountain roads (torque steering).
The Audi has 6 months delivery!!!!!, the Subaru is cheap for the options it has, the very good AWD system but I woulf prefer an engine with more torque and low end grunt, which a six potter will never give.

Any thoughts? Pros. and contras? Help to make me decide.

Thanks

Crono

I've got the V70 Titanium and really like just about everything in it. The looks are great and it handles positively. My car has the 2.5 Turbo, so I can't tell you much about the diesel engine. I would recommend a FWD car unless you really have a need for AWD. AWD adds almost $2k to the price and it will require maintenance. Why not put the cost of AWD into some other useful options.

Thanks for the input,

I test drove a S80 D5 FWD this morning. The V70 D5 was not available for a test this morning. The dealer told me that the S80 was only slightly heavier then the V70 and suspension was similarly soft for comfort. The only V70 you can order with lowered sport suspension is the T5 and AWD R all the others come with standard springs and shocks. A couple of years ago this was a normal options, nowadays something special which will take some months to get doneby the factory? Definitively i don't like the S80 at all. Way to vague and soft, no feedback, slow steering only fit for highway cruising at some 140- 150 km/h

The engine a 5cilinder diesel with 163 HP and 370 NM torque was nice,with low end grunt but it died somewhere at 4000 rpm. Of course it's noisier then my 2,5T but that was expected. However at 3000 rpm the car had a drone/resonation in the cabin which was ennoying. Also I found the termination & buttons of lesser quality then my 1998 XC. The car's speaker set is far better in my XC too?
Suspension is way too plush and vague compared to my old XC and that car has seen some very bad unmade roads in the last copules of years.
Also I had the DSTC coming in all the time on mountain roads and they were not even wet? Is this normal. My XC only has tracs up to 40 km/h and never had the feeling it was cutting back when loosing traction. I know Tracs actiones the brakes and DSTC on the torque but all the fun is gone.
If the new V 70 are similarly sprung as the S 80, i will froget about the V 70
and try the S 60. The fact that I wanted AWD is not only for the bad weather conditions but also because it is much more fun to drive and you can corner much harder without loosing traction and having massive understeer.
I also tried an Alfa Romeo 156 Sportswagon with the 2.4 JTD 140 HP and the same engine with 170 Hp. This is a very flickable and good handling car. Specially the 140 Hp engine is a jewel. Very good brakes and roadholding.
However the position behind the steering wheel was absolutely sh..te, or my legs are too short or my arms too long, also the pedals were not in line with my body but twisted inwards, which gives you a very peculiar position. After 30 minutes I got already some muscle straint in my back. Ergonomics is not well resolved, buttons and controls on the wrong places and partly invisble. Volvo is better here, however they should invite some engineers to get roadholding and throttle response right. Will wait the testdrive with the S 60.
Also the new S 40 were being delivered at the dealer, looks good, very compact and clean design on the Ford C-max platform.

We'll see. Will stick some more time with my old XC before deciding and will do some testing around.

Crono

It sounds like the V70D5 you drove uses the same suspension as the standard V70 2.4 in the U.S. It is an adequate if somewhat soft suspension and the steering is just a bit heavy comnpared to the speed sensitive steering on the turbo's.

In the U.S. the V70 2.5T and 2.5T Titanium models both share the same suspension and turbo powered gas engine. I've found that the stiffer suspension when combined with speed sensitive steering and lower profile 234/45 tires gives very positive steering. My area tends to get road potholes, and those are very much noticed though!

Does Volvo sell the Titanium version where you live? If so I would encourage you to give it a try. Hopefully it will come with the turbo-diesel engine if a turbo-gas engine isn't an option.

The 60 series AWD is different then your XC. It now uses
a Haldex system which should be more robust.

I assume the D5 means diesal (we don't get that option in the
U.S.). Since I also like the sporty aspect of my S70 T5 I'd
have to also go with the S60.

Do you have another vehicle for hauling the dogs? We also have
a 855 wagon and I must say it really is handy and the perfect
size for our family of 4 (plus 2 dogs). I know our lifestyle
would require at least one other car bigger then the S60.

Hi,

The D-5 is a 163 Hp diesel, not bad at all but as usaual in these kind of engines the powerramge is extremely short. You will have to keep it between 2000 and 4000 rpm. Over 4000 it simply dies and it is if you were entering the rev limiter on the T-5 and 2,5T but worse. Good side is that it is cheap to maintain and consumption is low, same as CO emissions.
Also with a mannual gear box this means that you keep shifting all the time if you try to drive it in a sporty way. It also is noisy at max. torque (drone)
The Titanium models have an option kit which makes them more sporty but suspension is the same as the other V-70's according to the dealer. If you want sport suspension you will have to add that to the Titanium pack, seperatedly.
In the meantime I drove the new Subaru Legacy 3.0 R.
The car surprised me positively. A few points that I didn't like or liked less then in my actual XC.
1-It's an automatic gearbox with 2 modes, normal which is rather slow and reluctant to shift up or with a hesitation if you floor the throttle and a"Sport" mode which is much more fun and makes the car really move. Best however is the 3rd.mode which is sequencial, or mannual up and downshifts, although without a clutch. The nice thing about that that it will not shift up or down even if you hit the rev limiter, which starts somewhere past 7000 rpm. I would prefer however a traditional mannual 6 speed gearbox.
2-The engine is so silky soft that you only notice the engine is running because of the gauges. No vibration, no noise nothing. Looks electrical.
My 2.5 T feeld like a diesel compared to that. Howvere The 2,5 T has nice low end grunt, something which the Subaru flat six does not have. Best power delivery over 4000 rpm. Under 4000 the car is moving just as any normal dull jap car. Nothing exciting though.(The real fun is between 5000-7000 rpm. it delivers 245 HP at 6300 rpm)
I like massive torque as only turbo charged gasoline engines deliver.
3- The seats are well made and finished but not as comfortable as in the old XC.
I must say though that I found also the new Volvo'd worse in this aspect.
Also the regulation of the steering wheel in depth is not possible.
4- Steering is too light for my taste.I would like to have a less assisted wheel.
Everything else is superb, the audio is superb, termination and ergonomics too.
Interior is spacious and light (too light as the leathers are light beige leather and I would have preferred dark grey or even black)
Iterior room is as in a V70. Roadholding is superb and balanced. On a wet mountain track I have not been able to get this thibg sliding not even when I placed the gear in 2nd. mannual and floored it at the apex of very tight corners. It just pulls away without hesitation or (power)sliding. Good but difficult to find the limit on public roads. The AWD system is a real permanent with a 50/50 split front rear. (symetric AWD the call it) which works superb and even better than Audi's quattro system.
Suspension is the perfect combination between sporty and comfortable, still a bit more towards sporty. Tha car feels smaller then it is and feels really nimble. It comes standard with a large sun roof which goes so far as the rear seats! The only possible option is a navigation system, which I don't need anyway.
Warranty is 6 years or 250.000 kms!! (Volvo 2 years now)
Put in this car a turbo charged engine of about 250 HP at massive torque, the seats of a Saab or Volvo and a mannual 6 speed gearbox and you would have an almost ideal car.
Difficult choice?

Crono