I have a 1994 85 with a five speed manual transmission. Not to many of these babies around in the US. It has 132,000 of mainly city miles on it. How much longer while it last and how much to replace it. Should I do the rear seal at the same time even though no leaks yet. I don't think its slipping yet just a little loose, but who knows I've been driving this car for 10 years now.

keith

I have close to 200K KM on mine and still feels like new. If driven properly, they should last easily the life of the car. I change the transmission oil every 98K KM (60K Miles) for good measure.
My indie which services only Volvo says he has never had to repair a manual on an 850 (the automatics are the ones that keep him in business...).

thanks for worrying me...
and automatics are much more expensive to repair than manual.
I prefer not to think about it.

They seem to wear out ... when they wear out!

I've heard of one or two failing but they've typically been when the car was under the original warranty or the owner missed a shift while trying to "teach a lesson" to some kid in a Mustang. Mine still shifts like new after 140,000. Too bad the rest of the car isn't as robust as the engine and transmission! I'd look for a used 5-speed before a rebuild on a 10 year old car.

Is yours popping out of gear or grinding? Otherwise, if it just feels "loose" maybe it's worn linkage bushings. If it starts to slip that should be the clutch, not the gearbox.

And, yes, I'd certainly replace the main seal and the clutch while everything is apart.

-Punx

Since no one else has replied, I'll take a shot.

Since on this board I have not seen a single complaint about the reliability of the manual transmission--so I don't think it is a concern.

But the biggest contributor to manual transmission failures is poor user technique. Since you have 10 years and 132,000 miles on this thing, I'll assume that your technique is reasonably competent.

Bad technique would include:

--downshifting through the gears as you approach a stop or, in general, using your transmission as a substitute for your brakes.
--slamming the shift lever through the gears like you are auditioning for a Mustang commercial. You should be able to shift most manual transmissions with your pinky.
--not double-clutch downshifting.
--resting your foot on the clutch pedal.
--keeping the clutch pedal depressed at a stop.
--not putting the shift lever in one of the forward gears before placing the lever in reverse.

going to take issue on this...

--downshifting through the gears as you approach a stop or, in general, using your transmission as a substitute for your brakes.

advised good driving technique..no problem PROVIDING you match revs and dont slip the clutch for too long (aka use the CLUTCH as a brake).. match the revs, clutch all the way out and decelerating should be no issue...

--slamming the shift lever through the gears like you are auditioning for a Mustang commercial. You should be able to shift most manual transmissions with your pinky.

hmm, ok again an issue with clutch control and rev matching...try shifting a 940t with your pinky...sore pinky!

--not double-clutch downshifting.

NOT neccessary on a synchromesh box..

--resting your foot on the clutch pedal.

agreed, can be bad for the clutch, but wont damage the transmission itself

--keeping the clutch pedal depressed at a stop.

agreed, can be bad for the clutch, but wont damage the transmission itself..not a good idea to sit with your foot on the brake in an auto either...

--not putting the shift lever in one of the forward gears before placing the lever in reverse.

any modeern (ish) car that has this problem already has a transmission problem (provided your stopped at the time...and lets face it puttign it in reverse if moving forward is a REALLY DUMB idea...)

I speak with some authority as i have put over 300k on one manual transmission with a clutch change at 200k, 180 k on another (which was fine and original clutch), 160 k on another (original clutch) 80k on another (original clutch) and ahand full of others with 10-50k ...

Manual transmissions are fairly bullet proof if you dont grind, bang or 'shove' them. Change the fluid often (its cheap!) and replace a clutch every now and then...but in an 850 the rear seal is likely to have you drop the box every 100k or so, so either replace the clutch then, or if the clutch goes just look at it as a rear seal job..

Thanks for your reasoned response. I can take the disagreement. Let me show you where I disagree.

--downshifting through the gears as you approach a stop or, in general, using your transmission as a substitute for your brakes.

----advised good driving technique..no problem PROVIDING you match revs and dont slip the clutch for too long (aka use the CLUTCH as a brake).. match the revs, clutch all the way out and decelerating should be no issue...

engine braking is OK. We can agree on that. But downwhifting through the gears, to take advantage of engine braking, is widely overused. If I'm on the highway and will be exiting, I will double-clutch-downshift from 5th to 4th, and then maybe to third, in order to take advantage of engine braking. But coming off the highway, I'm trying to burn off quite a bit of kinetic energy, so this is acceptable. Around town, if your in 3rd, going down through the gears as you approach a stop is not acceptable, in my opinion. Brakes are a much more appropropriate sacrificial element--a lot easier and cheaper to replace than driveline componenets.

--slamming the shift lever through the gears like you are auditioning for a Mustang commercial. You should be able to shift most manual transmissions with your pinky.

----hmm, ok again an issue with clutch control and rev matching...try shifting a 940t with your pinky...sore pinky!

okay, maybe not your pinky, but you get the point. Anyone who has ever watched a Mustang commercial and watched the actor SLAM through the gears knows that that is unnecessary and damaging. Those little brass synchromesh rings have got to absorb all that rotational inertia and giving them a modicum of time to accomplish that task is the best thing in the long run.

--not double-clutch downshifting.

----NOT neccessary on a synchromesh box..

I disagree. Traditionally, synchromesh are the weak point of any manual transmission. Anything you can do to prolong their life is working in your favor. You don't HAVE to double-clutch-downshift, but I guarantee you that given a population of double-clutchers and a population of non-double-clutchers, the double-clutchers have much extended lives on their transmissions.

--resting your foot on the clutch pedal.

----agreed, can be bad for the clutch, but wont damage the transmission itself

first motion shaft bearing thrust loading increased. The less loading, the better. The fact is it takes no more effort to keep you foot off the pedal. It is just a matter of learning good habits. Once you learn that habit, it doesn't cost you anything.

--keeping the clutch pedal depressed at a stop.

----agreed, can be bad for the clutch, but wont damage the transmission itself..not a good idea to sit with your foot on the brake in an auto either...

again, first motion shaft bearing thrust loading.

--not putting the shift lever in one of the forward gears before placing the lever in reverse.

----any modeern (ish) car that has this problem already has a transmission problem (provided your stopped at the time...and lets face it puttign it in reverse if moving forward is a REALLY DUMB idea...)

I worte this before I was informed that the 850 has synchromesh in reverse. But the advice is still a good habit to get into. You will not always be driving an 850 and your manual transmission driving habits should not change from one car to the next. You get into one habit and you stick with it. So the habit should accomodate the widest range of applications. And the habit doesn't hurt the 850--it's just unecesary. And it is necessary on a car without synchromesh in reverse because many morning, when it's cold, I go out and even with the transmission in neutural, the circulation of tranny oil from the first motion shaft causes the other components to start spinning on their own and when you shift directly into reverse (without first shifting into a synchronized gear) you get gear clash. An avoidable situation which takes very little extra effort to accomplish.

Thanks for your pointers.

not going to argue further...but all i can say is i do most of what you say is bad for a gear box and have NEVER had any issues, even clutches normally last 150-200k for me (ok they generally go due to wear on the fingers because i DO have the bad habit of sitting with my foot on it at stop signs...)

BUT i dont slam the stick and learned to drive on a manual (and have done 600k in them...)

Basically you HAVE to REALLY ABUSE a manual to break it...or not change the fluid (suprising most people dont know you should change it as often as an automatic..)

If you break a manual....u gota be really nasty with it...

nuff said...

PS..I can match revs..possibly this is why mine last so long...

just thought i did once have a problem of a gear stick taht would move in circles (due the the waer in the linkage ball & sockets getting to the point where they dropped apart on the highway.....now that was REALLY interesting!)

--not putting the shift lever in one of the forward gears before placing the lever in reverse.

Just curious, why would you need to do this one -- the Volvo manual has
a fully synchronised reverse gear.

Does it? Wow.

In the late '60s, I remember reading that the Lamborghini Muira had sychromesh in reverse and I remember thinking how exotic that was.

I've never even considered that a car that I could afford would have a synchronized reverse. I'll check it out tonight.

Thanks for the update.

Thanks for all the info. I quess since manuals never come up a problems on the message board, I should confine my worries to other areas of the car. Thanks for the good shifting lesson. Yes I do all those with the possible exception of habit of sometimes putting the car in a forward gear before going into reverse( but always from a complete stop. sometimes it is hard to get the car into reverse. so I have to do this.

ARe clutches ever adjusted? What does that mean?

Keith