posted by
someone claiming to be kelly
on
Thu Aug 12 01:17 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Hi all took my 96 850 in for a/c compressor replacement what did they give me but a new 2004 1/2 s40, well I must say I dont like it, leather quality is cheesy sound system sucks and it rides just like my car, im not wowed but I did tell them to take their time with my car hopefully new compressor and clutch will fix my a/c shut down problem. kelly
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I took the new S40 T5 six speed out for a spin when the Volvo Drive event came around in Feb. I was particularly interested in it to buy as a new car.
After stomping around the closed course all afternoon, I went up to the Swedish engineer and said very frankly "It doesn't have that solid feel like the Volvo's I'm used to driving. I drive a '96 960 and it's build quality is so much better. I've driven the S60 T5 and would choose that before I bought this car"
He said "Yah, your right about tat!"
I went out and got me a sweet V70 2.5T titanium w/sport package. Muuuuuch better!
--
'89 245 Sportwagon, '04 V70 2.5T Sportwagon
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posted by
someone claiming to be Ray N.
on
Thu Aug 12 16:52 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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I saw a new S40 in a parking lot yesterday. Black. I went out
of my way to walk around it. I like the way it looks.
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Well since Ford took over in 1996 there has been a consistent move to make Volvo's out of Ford parts. The last reliable Swedish Volvo to roll off the assembly line was in 1996 before Ford started mandating design and technical changes. The S-40 you are driving is built off of a Ford chassis. Not a Volvo by any means.....
At least there were sixty plus years of reliable Volvo's produced. Find a good pre 1997 one, do all the maintenance, and when current buyers of Ford/Volvo’s are junking their sixth or seventh car, you will still have a car that is worth owning.
Happy Motoring
Oliver
64 122S (385,000 miles)
66 1800S (120,000 miles “crème puff”)
86 245DL (285,000 miles)
96 GLT (111,500 miles - Newest Volvo I will ever own)
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posted by
someone claiming to be kelly
on
Fri Aug 13 01:39 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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hey oliver, my 1996 850 was built by ford????? I thought they didnt take oner till 2001. kelly
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Kelly,
I stand corrected. I thought Ford took over in 1997 but they actually took over in 1999. Your 1996 is a "True Brick." Enjoy it for many years to come.
As for your dealer, why not give them a call and ask what exactly is going on with your vehicle?
Good Luck
Oliver
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posted by
someone claiming to be kelly
on
Fri Aug 13 04:13 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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I guess im afraid of what they are going to say and I like putting the miles on the car they gave me, I already know its gonna cost over 1000 bucks so what the hell. kelly
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Actually, Ford acquired Volvo in 1999. S90's, S60's and S80's are still Volvo cars. The old S40 was built off of the Mitsubishi Carisma (not sold in the states), and the new S40 is built from Ford's new chassis, which is used for the Mazda 3 and the european Ford Focus.
You can read about the acquisition here:
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0404/04/a01-112086.htm
The new S40 is not that bad a car, it's just built on a chassis that you can get the Mazda 3 on for a significantly less.
The Ford acquisiton of Volvo is not that bad an issue....yet, but I think Volvo made a bad move in discontinuing rear wheel drive cars. Rear wheel drive is a trend that is coming back, with many US carmakers desiging a handful of RWD sedans.
With the new "Ford-inspired" Volvos that might roll off the line in the future, it will just make it more difficult to rationalize spending thousands more on a Volvo when you can find a similarly made car from another make. Ford is beginning to share platforms across its newly acquired makes.
I still think Volvo should begin reproducing the old 240's. I'd pay $20,000+ for a new 240 if they were being made. Who wouldn't? Mini had similar success by re-issuing their Cooper.
--
'94 854 N/A.
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I still think Volvo should begin reproducing the old 240's. I'd pay $20,000+ for a new 240 if they were being made. Who wouldn't? Mini had similar success by re-issuing their Cooper.
The new Mini shares nothing in common with the old... except perhaps the same set of wheels being driven.
A $20k 240? Dream on. They were more than $20k before they were discontinued. I'd say mid 30s, maybe low 40s.
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alex
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posted by
someone claiming to be Bart
on
Mon Aug 16 05:57 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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"I'd pay $20,000+ for a new 240 if they were being made. Who wouldn't?"
MOST people wouldn't anymore and that's why Volvo stoppped making them in '93. It was an old body style (almost unchanged since '75) and Volvo couldn't sell them anymore due to lack of interest, especially in Europe. No $$$, no more cars.
BTW, in '93 the stripped down 240s were listing for more than $25K, more if loaded.
If you're a 240 guy, they're still around (nice ones too) so collect as many as you still can.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Dave
on
Thu Aug 12 17:11 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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Actually, it's much less a Ford than you think. The chassis was a development between Ford, Volvo and Mazda...with Volvo playing a large part of the development. Drive a Mazda 3 and drive an S40, two totally different cars. Ford doesn't "inspire" anything Volvo does, and those (like you) who say they do are simply making stuff up. Ford actually takes safety items from Volvo AFTER Volvo has released them in their cars. You will not find any Ford parts on the new S40 or any other Volvo besides the world platform being used (which means suspension mounting points, door mounting points etc.) Volvo even uses different steel in the construction of the safety cage than does Ford and Mazda. Ford lets Volvo design it's own cars 100% independently and only chimes when it comes to management and financial situations. Volvo is not something that Ford wants to mess with, as it is their only "premium" brand that is making money. I can't stand when you guys sit here bitching about Volvos being Fords when it's totally not the case, and has nothing to do with reality. Volvo makes its own decisions, its own engines, its own suspensions, its own safety gear, its own everything! Chassis sharing is a common thing in the auto industry, and you can successfully get multiple cars from the same foundation without compromising anything. It's not badge sharing like GM does with SAAB, etc.
So, get off it! Go find a nice 240, buy it, and stop complaining. Many people complained about the very car you drive when they first came out, "oh, it's front drive! oh, its a 5 cylinder developed by Porsche! Oh, its not a Volvo anymore! oh, it's not as safe as a 240! why can't volvo build the 240?!"
The 240 was a great car in it's day, and I still love them, but I don't expect that Volvo will build it again just to satisfy the 10 or so people on brickboard who want one.
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So, get off it! Go find a nice 240, buy it, and stop complaining. Many people complained about the very car you drive when they first came out, "oh, it's front drive! oh, its a 5 cylinder developed by Porsche! Oh, its not a Volvo anymore! oh, it's not as safe as a 240! why can't volvo build the 240?!"
Would it make you feel better if I said the thing drove like garbage?
I got a chance to test drive a new S40 T5 at a VCOA tech day held at the Santa Rosa, California Volvo dealer. There were four people in the car for the test drive. Three of us thought the car was garbage, the fourth was the Volvo salesdroid. I couldn't care less what wheels are being driven. Admittedly we all own RWD cars. Been through 2 240s and am on to a 760, myself all turbos.
The big complaints I had:
1.) Lack of traction accelerating from a stop. Instant wheelspin in a straight line, horribly awkward traction control. Of course an FWD car is going to loose traction when you accelerate, I was just disapointed that with four people in the car it would be so easy. Even with the TC, I was able to get the tires to squeal for a second or two before it drastically cut power and let me limp off the line.
2.) Unresponsive geartronic transmission. I've driven some bad automatics (ZF4HP22, AXOD, Ford's current FWD offerings). This unit was, by far, the absolute worst automatic transmission I've experienced. It was exceedingly slow at responding to any inputs (either from my left foot or my right hand).
More subjective complaints include:
Lack of rear headroom
Automagically locking doors
Gimmicky center console
Slippery leather
Consider that this car is priced significantly higher than its real competition, let alone its cousins. The Acura RSX w/ 6 speed manual is a fair chunk (I believe about $6k) cheaper.
My favorite comparison was with the 1999 Toyota Camry V6. Think about how much one of those costs. Add about $3k for the TRD supercharger, maybe another $1k in suspension mods and installation. You've got a 300hp, six cylinder, manual transmission beast with Japanese build quality.
In general I think that the S40 is a very poor showing. The more down market S40 with non-leather seating surfaces was far more comfortable to me.
Don't underestimate the 240. A nice, simple, RWD car would go a long way towards restoring many poeople's faith in Volvo. Even something based on the late 760/early 960 platform. The real problem, IMO, is that Volvo is trying to move upmarket. No US spec 700/900 cars got u-crank-it windows. Almost all got heated seats and sunroofs, etc. I think Volvo would have a much easier time selling a $30,000 utility wagon than a $30,000 rice rocket... nay sport compact.
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alex
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posted by
someone claiming to be Bart
on
Mon Aug 16 05:50 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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If one was at the technicians update class for this new car last spring, you'ld know that this is the first new Volvo model that DOES actually have MANY Ford parts all over the place. It's not 100% "Volvo" (whatever THAT means today) compared to all previous models.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Ned Ludd
on
Sun Aug 15 15:05 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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I'd rather see Ford doing the HVAC and wiring than some drunk at Peugeot designing an engine like that awful PRV B280 V6 or some VW engineer getting his revenge for Dresden with that VW diesel from the 760GLE.
I'm looking at buying the AWD V50 T5 just as soon as I think they've got the hang of building 'em. A Volvo with AC that really works and an electrical system that doesn't emit puffs of smoke? I think I'll be in Heaven!
-Ned Ludd
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I'd rather see Ford doing the HVAC and wiring than some drunk at Peugeot designing an engine like that awful PRV B280 V6 or some VW engineer getting his revenge for Dresden with that VW diesel from the 760GLE.
And yet that "awful" B280 went on to power the early 960s and early 90s ambulances in Australia, and perhaps other countries. Why? It had proven itself to be far more reliable than the early white block sixers.
And yes, I too think Volvo made a mistake with the V6. They should have grabbed the Peugeot diesel of the time (XD3T with electronic Bosch injection), and the Audi turbo five banger.
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alex
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hmm ok i will bite...
so what your saying is that nothing in a s40 comes out of ford except dimensions for mounting points etc..ok lets think about that for a second...WHY..
The only answer would be that this allows you to test one chasis design and develope that thus saving on R&D cost accross the group...BUT we all know chasis design is a WHOLE lot more that dimensions of mounting points, it relies on every componant, steels used in the chasis (i.e tortional stiffness / resonant frequencies etc)....so to be honest that idea simply doesnt add up to me...(thats my OPINION)..
We KNOW ford are using comon source compnanats on their lux cars form the UK and USA (Lincoln and Jaguar) ..down to common door handle sourcing...
I find it very difficult to credit (and what i have read would suggest) that they are not performing enonomy of scale operations on VOLVO too...certianly the rest of the car industry is...
Obviously wihtout taking two cars apart and compairing the peices its difficult to tell for sure...
Obviously you have somesort of inside track on this. perhaps you could help us all out and explain in more detail how the 'common platform' concept works and your qualifications for making the statements you do...
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Only comment I have to "850 Owner" is if they made the 240 Series again, I pray they would give us all the modern technology available today. Plus put in some diagnostics so you could figure out problems instead of guessing. My 1983 (which still sits in my backyard) was taken off the road because it would just quit. Thought I had it all figured out when I did the Hall Effect sender, but it came back. I've gone through many thousands of dollars on so many different parts. Well anyway, enough of my rambling on that. I still love my 1996 850 GLT.
Marty
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Being able to pull check engine codes is not a panacea, try not to act like one. However.. the stored codes have been mandated, by California at least, since the 1989 model year.
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alex
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posted by
someone claiming to be kelly
on
Fri Aug 13 01:49 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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hi marty, im getting worried volvo hasnt called me back to come pick up my car yet. wonder whats up, do they have to take the whole car apart to change the compressor? or do they want me to get use to the S40? its all a plot. kelly
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posted by
someone claiming to be kelly
on
Fri Aug 13 01:49 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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hi marty, im getting worried volvo hasnt called me back to come pick up my car yet. wonder whats up, do they have to take the whole car apart to change the compressor? or do they want me to get use to the S40? its all a plot. kelly
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All I can say is people who like rear wheel drive must not live in snow country!
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posted by
someone claiming to be BILL
on
Thu Aug 12 20:01 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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I live in snow country. I'll keep my RWD 245 thank you. 4 snow tires and I pass FWD cars sliding back down the hill they are trying to climb.
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Back before you were born, Volkswagen had a TV ad which asked the question: "How do snowplow drivers get to work? They drive a Beetle, of course!"
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95 854T, 88 780, 88 245
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Dave,
If you go back and read my post (no I did not edit), I said "With the new 'Ford-inspired' Volvos that might roll off the line in the future". I was not expressing that there are Ford inspired Volvos right now. I was referring to the future. Yes I like Rear-wheel drive. And for your information, Volvo did indeed use the Mitsubishi Carisma to develop their first S40. Do a search on Mitsubishi Carisma, and tell me that that car wasn't 100% Volvo inspired?
"Volvo makes its own decisions, its own engines, its own suspensions, its own safety gear, its own everything!"
Volvo sure did a fine job in making their very own first-generation S40.
Just because someone does not like a change in vehicle design is not always a sign of hasty and illogical judgement. Change is sometimes good. Change is also sometimes bad. I do not like front-wheel drive at all. But I like my 850 because it is all that I have to drive.
The vehicle industry, like any other industry, also takes the form of a business at some point. Volvo had only been in Ford's acquisiton for 5 years. Of course no major changes are occuring at this point. I have been an avid reader of the history of Ford. I have read many reports of the Ford Pinto. I have also read many reports about Lee Iacoca saying "safety does not sell". I also read how the Taurus financially saved Ford during its run that started in the 1986 model year. I have personally seen several ways in which Ford cuts corners in vehicle design, and this is what makes me refer to the new "ford-inspired" Volvos that may come off the line in the future. Perhaps Volvo will inspire Ford to build better cars (which seems to be happening right now). And perhaps Ford may inspire Volvo to earn a better profit. Like I said, the acquisition is only 5 years young, so it's not that easy to determine where things will go. I did small report on the acquisition for a college course (I'm a 22 year old psychology student). In short, I get insulted when someone takes someone else's post and uses it to make them appear the better person. Corrections are fine, and misinformed people should be corrected. But please do not use my posts to vent your frustration about people on the board "bitching" that they do not like the new Volvo models. We are all entitled to our own opinions. Yes I'd like a new 240. And yes I'd like for people to respect each others' opinions on this board, even if they may be mis-informed. Because that is what this board is about right? people to post what they want. To read and adhere to what has been posted is solely up to the user. If there's one thing you'll never see me do on this board is rip another person for their opinion. It's just bad character to me. If someone is mis-representing information, however, I won't hesitate to correct them. Thank you.
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'94 854 N/A.
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Didn't mean to hit the nerve I did. I happen to think the 240 series was pretty well designed for it's day too, but I drive a 1996 850 GLT everyday and love it. This is not a FWD vs. RWD issue. (I am sure there are some that prefer one over the other).
I do stand corrected on the acquisition date - I was under the impression that Ford completed the purchase in 1997 - that is why the 850 designation was changed to S70, but if I was incorrect I stand corrected.
The issue I have is that Ford will require Volvo to cut every corner and cost that they can to increase profit. CHEAP cars are not built like a VOLVO! Ford has a notorious reputation of building CHEAP crap that does not last and is not safe. I have had the unpleasant opportunity to own three Ford products over the years, and I hope to never own another one. The corner stone that built Volvo's reputation is exactly the opposite of Ford’s philosophy. A friend of mine who has been a dealer of Volvo products for forty years has noticed a difference with the newer vehicles. A lot of parts use to be sourced from Bosch or other Germany companies, now those parts come from Ford or Japan.
Maybe someone who works for Volvo in Sweden can speak up here and let us know if they see a difference under Ford ownership.
Oliver
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