posted by
someone claiming to be kivi
on
Tue Jan 25 03:01 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I haven't been able to drive my 850 for about 5 days now. It dropped to
-35C for about a week, and me being an idiot, left the gas tank on empty the coldest night.
Inevitably, my car no longer starts. It cranks just fine but doesn't catch for more than a second or two. Even flooring it once or twice I can't even smell any gas, which leads me to believe the gas just isn't getting to where it should be? Frozen gas line?
Since then I've added about 30 litres of gas to the tank with a bit of gas line anti-freeze, but still nothing. So before I have it towed to my mechanics garage to thaw it out, is there anything else I can try? Unfortunately the temperature outside is not rising above 0C anytime soon.
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posted by
someone claiming to be RAF -MARKHAM, ONT.
on
Wed Jan 26 05:16 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I've had the same problem with a 1995 850 turbo wagon - last winter, and again this week. It is not necessarily related to fuel starvation, but rather air intake problems in my case. On the older turbos the intercooler can get completely plugged with ice after running in the cold, due to condensation build-up on dirty inner surfaces. No air to engine - no start. Before replacing the air hose last year, I could see the old one collapse onto itself when trying to start the engine. Disconnecting the air intake hose may allow it to cough/run, but it may not run long - you may have to partially re-connect/disconnect the hose until it warms up. If you have a turbo you may need to use a hair drier on the radiator carefully to thaw it out. Then get it into a warm garage to thoroughly defrost. Mine was flushed thoroughly last year with degreaser, and it ran fine until overnight temperatures hit -26 C this week.
First indication of my problem is refusal to start immediately and, once going, it will not rev up in gear, but seems to go into a "limp" mode. Easing up on the accelerator allows slow progress up through the gears until warm enough to thaw some airways. However, higher speeds and short runs allow more condensation build-up, and you need to get into somewhere warm to completely de-ice. Check the drain hole under the intercooler/radiator - if that is blocked there is nowhere for moisture/condensation to run out. My neighbour with a SAAB turbo has had a similar problem - he now routinely reaches for the hair drier rather than call a towtruck.
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The indications of your problem sounds almost identical to mine. Before I begin to fiddle with the air hose, since I'm new to this stuff, can you explain where exactly I should be looking for the air hose the diameter of this thing? :) Thanks.
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posted by
someone claiming to be RAF -MARKAM
on
Fri Jan 28 03:53 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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kivi - easiest access to air intake is via the large rubber hose behind the top of the radiator, running left to right. The hose is about 4 inches in diameter. Loosen hose clamp and wriggle the hard plastic connection out of the rubber tube to allow the engine to breathe without going through the intercooler, which is sandwiched into the radiator cooling coils. There should be enough flexibility to allow you to temporarily offset the two parts whilst trying to start. Turn the engine over - it may require numerous tries to get it running - and you may need to have a battery charger handy if the engine was flooded. Last year I had to pull the plugs and dry them off. After warmup try re-connecting the hoses. If the rubber one collapses, consider the intercooler is blocked. You will probably have to run it for some time to warm up, and then rtry reconnecting. Expect difficulty in getting the revs up for quite a while - choose a quiet stretch of road to minimise embarassment. Get it to a warm place to thaw out thoroughly. I changed the engine oil in case flooding contaminated the crankcase, and refilled with semi-synthetic, since I have 230,000 on the clock. You may want to have the turbo oil lines and seals checked out in case there is an ingress of oil/smoke into the intercooler. A mechanic solvent-flushed the intercooler on mine last year, and it was fine until last week. I must have deposited more crud in the intercooler, and will try a re-flush when we get above the current -18 weather! Good luck.
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Thanks for the detailed explanation! I especially like the "minimize embarassment" part. Although that's already too late since my girlfriend is driving circles around my dead Volvo in her '90 Corolla. :)
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How about pulling a plug and see if it is wet after a starting try?
Aside from towing (I belong to AAA and tow at the drop of a hat - that's how I could send a car for service, but the tow driver is instructed try to start a dead car.) I would put a new set of plugs in, charge the battery (outside the car) and give it one more try.
At -35 degrees C you are below the flash point of some gasoline - it won't give off enough vapor to burn, and perhaps you cannot smell it.
--
'96 855R, '95 855, 854, '90 744 TI, 366,000 miles put on 7 bricks
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posted by
someone claiming to be ksg
on
Tue Jan 25 08:34 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Since the fuel system is sealed I think you wouldn't normally smell any fuel unless there is massive flooding.
Are you sure the fuel pumps are running? Either you should hear them for a couple secs when you turn on the ignition (may need someone to stand back there), or you can place an ammeter in series with each fuse (again you would need to be trying to start the car). Holding the gas pedal to the floor while trying to start cuts off the fuel supply (to remedy flooding).
Also are any diagnostic codes set which might indicate an ignition problem, rather than fuel?
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posted by
someone claiming to be kivi
on
Tue Jan 25 08:55 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I can hear the fuel pump running. Unfortunately, I'd need to get it to my mechanic to check the codes.
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I would try a hair dryer on low heat up against the fuel filter.
Klaus
--
98 V70Rawd(101Kmi), 95 854T(85K mi), 75 164E(173K mi)
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You could try one of those dipstick block heaters. It might mean throwing, I don't know, $20 away but it could be cheaper than the alternatives.
-JSBB
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posted by
someone claiming to be Mr. Norm
on
Tue Jan 25 04:11 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Won't help if the freeze is in the fuel line itself.
For the same reason, plus safety, I would avoid the hair dryer fix, if the blockage isn't at the fuel filter, now you are just heating up gasoline.
I would bite the bullet and get it towed to a warm garage.
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But we don't know for sure if it IS a frozen gas line. We do know that when it was warmer, it worked.
-JSBB
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posted by
someone claiming to be kivi
on
Tue Jan 25 04:39 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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So what possible other scenarios involving frozen things, would prevent fuel from reaching it's destination? :) All that I know is that it cranks just fine, but no matter what I try I can't seem to smell any gas. Hmmm.
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methyl hydrate?
I hear it can be bad on rubber components.
Or how about a heat gun?
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Did you ever figure out this problem?
This happened to my 97 850, but it started later that same day after it warmed up. I ask my mech. about it and he said it is probably something in the ignition sytem; plug, wires, rotor. It hasn't gotten really cold here again, so the problem hasn't returned. I am interested in the answer to your problem.
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I was trying to be helpful to someone who had the problem. I did not experience this problem.
Thanks.
-JSBB
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HI:
I had the same problem with my 97 850GLT, during one of coldest days
this winter, in Oakville ON. The car would start, run rough but
would not rev much over the idle speed.
Looking under the hood I could see that the 4 inch rubber tube from
the top of the intercooler to the throttle body, was almost flat.
Opening the throttle from under the hood with the engine running,
caused the tube to flatten even more as the engine choked on the
rich mixture. Don't recall a similar problem with the 740 turbo.
After warming up it eventually seemed to run normally.
I have thought that this car was running rich for some time.
Both the turbo and the air pump have been replaced, and the
gas milage particularly in winter, still sucks. Also, I occasionally
see a puff of black smoke under heavy acceleration. Could the
intercooler still be partially blocked, but allow almost normal
running?
Does the 850 intercooler have a drain plug like the 740 turbo had.
I used to get a little oil out of that at each oil change.
With the Lubrico warranty on the 850 I cannot do my own oil
changes, and I am not certain that the lube places know what they
are doing.
Does any one know of product that could be used to flush the
intercooler without harming it?
Hugh
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