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Well, I have made the decision - for those of you who gave me advice regarding my recent problems with my 850 which I invested $850 in water pump, timing belt etc only to have it blow a valve the next day,
We are going to replace it rather than try to fix, we need a car that will get us 3000 miles to Canada and keep running for a few years and I don't think we can rely on our present car to do that especailly after we drove it 200 miles with a broken valve (unknowingly).
So, my budget is about $5000 and I think I want to go with another 850 since I know them well now, and have managed to do some of my own repairs. I am open to others if I could get them for the same price. I also can go sedan or wagon, auto or manual.
I have learned some valuable lessons about what to look for (common failures) in the 850 such as the oil seals, PNP switch, look for recent timing belt service etc.
What is most important when choosing a 90's 850:
- model year (I heard 1993 had some problems?)
- mileage (bought ours with 169k and only got 2 years out of it)
- single owner/maint. records... and what to look for in those records
- other things?
How does one know if the engine leaks oil - what if they just steam cleaned it? I know most of these have bad A/C compressors and it would be nice if it was working - is there a way to know if they simply recharged the A/C for selling but it still leaks?
Are there other years/models you'd recommend instead of a 94-96 860? I was pretty happy with ours overall but it was a 5th owner car and no records - will not do that again. Prveiously had an 80's 740 which was very reliable but didn't seem as safe (no airbags) and I think the car has to be newer than 1994 to import into Canada so those are out.
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Apart from the 850 Turbo my wife has, I have had two Acura Legend's. Bulletproof is the best way to describe them. The first one, 1988, bought with 136k miles, replaced clutch, had radiator cleaned, that's it!! Sold it with 220k miles. Now I have a 1991 Legend, absolutely no problems for the last two years, bought it for 5k. The 1991-1995/6 Legends all look the same, fairly modern, luxurious interiors, and again BULLETPROOF!!! When my wife's 850 dies (looks like real soon), we will have two Legends in the garage, or maybe the RL, hmmmmmm.......
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posted by
someone claiming to be Sam
on
Thu Mar 10 12:59 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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Tina,
You are being unreasonable and close-minded. Your situation clearly shows you need to get a Honda, Toyota, Hyundai or something similar as regards your needs for value and dependability. Have you ever owned one or familiar with any of these? I have and completely understand the advice others posters are giving you.
We have 2 Volvos and like many aspects of them. However: they aren't nearly as reliable as Asian cars. We can afford them but the nuisance of maintaining them makes me quite sure I'll go back to a Honda (or similar level) for next vehicle.
Further, if size is an issue, you would be better off getting a used Taurus and burning through 2 or 3 of them if need be then to spend the $5K on a Volvo. Take a look at what they go for. You may not like the looks or some other aspect, but used ones go for next to nothing. They would be fine on a day to day basis. I've had them also. (see if there are any used SHO's left: that was a great car that just couldn't fight the market competitors)
You can choose to repeat your scenario and hope for a better outcome. Isn't that the age-old definition of insanity...?
Good luck.
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Hi Tina, and welcome to Canada.
Please don't wait to get up here to buy your next brick.
The reason for this is due to the current high value of the Canadian dollar against the American greenback. For a mid-nineties 850 your looking at $7500 to $9500 Canadian which works out to @ $6000 to $8000 USD.
Be certain when buying your next car that you have a clean burner, particularily if your relocating to Ontario where emissions testing is at least as stringent as in California - I think...
Alberta does not require a safety check (certification) on your vehicle to licence it there, but I believe all other provinces do.
Bottom line is that you will save money if you can get a good car in the U.S. and please remember theat the posted speed limit of "100" is in kilometers per hour.
Cheers!
Armie
--
'94 850 154000kms '86 760GLE 272000kms
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HI Armie,
Thanks! Yup I am a Canadian and I've been living in California for 5 years but looking forward to returning to Ontario (despite winter!)
I did look up prices for used Volos back home and found that even accounting for exchange rate, import taxes etc the cars are much cheaper here - and Volvos are plentiful in my area. I live in a weathy area and people like to replace their cars frequently, and there is no rust here either.
Yes I plan to buy the best car I can for my money and take it back with me! If I ever need to sell in the forst year or two, I will make money not lose it.
Thanks for the welcome home!
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how about hiring something until you get to canada then buying there....
that way no age restraints and Im sure some of the canadian board members would line up a few prospects and email them to you....strikes me buying in a rush is likely to be a bad buy....
BTW i like 850's..i like 940's too but NO way im going there again...
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tina, tina, tina,
I will have to put on my financial advisor hat for this message. In a prior post you said:
"I were to go out and buy a replacement I'd have to eithr finance it or drain my retirement fund and pay tax penalties etc."
Now, in this post you indicate that your budget is $5,000. Draining a retirement fund in order to buy a car that will likely generate significant (and unknowable) future repair costs is no way to properly secure your financial future.
I have no idea of your overall financial situation, but if spending $5k for a car will disrupt your retirement savings, then you should be buying a less expensive car. I have to agree with the folks recommending a Japanese car. They require fewer repairs (almost none, in fact), and the repairs are cheaper. I own a Volvo and a Honda. I view the Volvo as an expensive luxury which we keep because my wife loves to drive it. If money were an issue, it would be gone in a heartbeat.
Don't let the allure of a "luxury car", or keeping up with other people, force you into poor financial decisions. What will you think when you are ready to retire, and you realize that you have to work for another five years because you chose to buy a more expensive car that you thought was a great status symbol?
Overspending for transportation is a very easy mistake to make. When you're cutting it close financially, then it's a very dumb, irresponsible idea.
Good luck. Go Honda!
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Tina wrote: "...I think the car has to be newer than 1994 to import into Canada..."
You need to look at the official requirements (www.riv.ca/english/html/how_to_import.html)
From the list of admissible vehicles linked above: 1) Any car older than 15 years is allowed to be imported. 2) All Volvo models from 1990-2005 are allowed (the S40/V40 needs bumber modification).
In other words, any Volvo may be imported to Canada from the U.S. I believe they will add such things as normal units for speedometer and French airbag warning lables.
-Eric
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I think it was the 850 that had to be 1994 or 3, or maybe the list just stated that beause they didn't make the 850 before 1993. I have checked out the link and was following the instructions for the '94 850, thanks for pointing it out in case I had not. I just had not looked up any other year/model.
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..... and you'll have to replace the Headlamp Switch as well
--
Ken
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Hi Tina,
Just went to Ebay and aren't they nice? You just got unlucky and got a poor example that didn't make it to 300K!!! There are 5 speed versions out there, cheap too. The worst 2 items on an 850 is the AC and the tranny. If you could find a 5 speed, that eliminates a big headache and brings the price down.
You are right about the little Japanese cars. Seems the Volvos depreciate faster. Remember Portland, that is a big Volvo area. Should be a lot in the Bay area. Keep looking.
Klaus
--
98 V70Rawd(101Kmi), 95 854T(85K mi), 75 164E(173K mi)
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Honestly I wouldn't spend your money on a used 850 if you're on a tight budget. It will eat your lunch in repairs. The ABS light is a ABS Module going bad ($1500), the leaking A/C system is an evaporator replacement ($1500). The dent repair will run you $500-$1000. You would be far ahead finding a newer Toyota or Honda if you like FWD cars, or a BMW if you like RWD cars. Look at the Consumer Reports website and see the ratings on fewest repairs. Where does the 850 rank? In the basement.
Mike
'95 850T
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Well i can't find any non-crap cars in my price range other than the 90's Volvos. Toyotas and Hondas are too small for me and not widely available used here, and tend to be over priced and are simply cheap-looking and not satisfying to own... and the BMW's totally out of the question they cost twice as much as Volvos here. I like being familar with the cars I buy, and I've had 4 Volvos and know my way around them sufficiently and can do many repairs myself.
Do you prefer the 960 series? I have seen some reasonable ads for them but haven't owned one. How about the 1998 S70? I was very happy with my 740 wagon it never had a problem - but alas the car needs to be 1994 or newer to import into Canada.
It's funny that you are on a Volvo board telling people not to buy Volvos :)
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I just hate to see someone on a budget buy a car that will break their bank in repairs. Its great to be familiar with the car you drive. Its even greater to not have to worry about it breaking down and wiping you out financially. That's why I recommended the Honda or Toyota over the Volvo in your situation. The 850 was Volvo's introduction into the front wheel drive world. The Aisin transmission sucks and is too small, especially for the Turbo model. But its all they could cram into the space they engineered the engine bay for, so that's what we got. The A/C system originally had no filter, causing thousands of premature evaporator failures, and a retrofit filter was introduced. You'll never see a video of them rolling an 850 off a 15 story building and driving it away. They are a crash and toss design. We bought our 850 brand new and know every thing that's gone into it and it's babied and maintained in a garage, but it still frustrates me to see other 850's with so many failures and repair nightmares. I just don't think they are a good choice for a used vehicle unless you like dumping money into it. Will Volvo improve under Ford's ownership? Uh...
Mike
'95 850T
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"I just hate to see someone on a budget buy a car that will break their bank in repairs. "
uhm like 940 u mean ( i speak from experience, the 850 has cost me next to nothing to run...)
"Its great to be familiar with the car you drive. Its even greater to not have to worry about it breaking down and wiping you out financially. That's why I recommended the Honda or Toyota over the Volvo in your situation." Yeh but you CAN fix the volvo, i looked at Jap last time, asked the garrage i had used for years and they just laughed and said 'main dealer only - not worth the costs of he specialised tools/software' I agree very reliable but very expensive if it goes wrong..
"The 850 was Volvo's introduction into the front wheel drive world. The Aisin transmission sucks and is too small, especially for the Turbo model." - i think you have it there FOR THE TURBO MODEL, but bear in mind in Europe most turbo's were manuals.....and the 850 is a much more european car than the 7's & 9's which were aimed at the US market...
" But its all they could cram into the space they engineered the engine bay for, so that's what we got." - yeh and crumple zones....
" The A/C system originally had no filter, causing thousands of premature evaporator failures, and a retrofit filter was introduced." - agreed complet cock up, but its swedish not exactly much call for a/c
"You'll never see a video of them rolling an 850 off a 15 story building and driving it away." - dont want to drive it if it does its supposed to die saving me...
"They are a crash and toss design. ", Yeh its called safety features it dies you dont...
" We bought our 850 brand new and know every thing that's gone into it and it's babied and maintained in a garage, but it still frustrates me to see other 850's with so many failures and repair nightmares." - so i think your saying if you look after it its fine or am i missing something?
" I just don't think they are a good choice for a used vehicle unless you like dumping money into it." - yeh any used car cost money to run, but consider that against the depreciation on a new car...and new cars cost moeny cos u have to main dealer the service etc for warrenty purposes
MY main gripe is the CRAP standard of work by volvo main dealers - i think they are responsible for far more failures than the basic design...
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posted by
someone claiming to be Volvo4lifeNOT!
on
Wed Mar 9 01:44 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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I agree with Mike and there are a lot of people on this Volvo Board not happy with their car. If most of us did not have issues with our car there would be no need for this board. I am the third owner of my car which I bought in 2000. The things I really like about the car I really like but I am tired of the repairs. My wife has a 95 Nissan Maxima that we bought in 1999. With the exception of replacing the alternator I have not spent one dime on repairs. My 850 has seen virtually every common problem of its kind, the last being the fuel pump and now the PNP switch. I have been able to fix the majority of my repairs but have decided if I can't fix it, I will get another car and it won't be a Volvo. Good Luck with Volvo number 5
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Well I think that some of us hold our Volvos to higher standards. After all, my 850 had 237,000 miles on it and still ran like a new car until Saturday's catastrophe! I still belive it was a timing belt skip or something because I have great compression still in the other 4 cylinders. In fact I am still getting 20 mpg driving it around town on 4 cylinders, and I don't know if many other cars would be running at alln in this condition.
I have owned a Ford and a Pontiac - never ever again will I own an american car, what crap they were. They didn't even make it to 80k let alone 237k.
I have owned 3 Volvos now and been very happy with them in general. My 740 saved me from severe injury in an accident that I walked away from without even a stiff neck or twisted ankle, when a drunk driver ran a stop sign in a residential area going about 50 mph and sideswiped me. To me my life is worth more than money.
I think this board exists not because Volvos suck, but because many of us like to know what goes on inside our cars and fix what we can ourselves. I have fixed so many things on my car from cleaning the EGR valve last year to changing tailgate struts, engine check lighbulb, all things that would have cost me several hundred $$ at a garage. That's with basic tooks and no mechanical education. There is no such support resource for a Honda or Toyota - I'd have to buy the Chilton's guide and try for the best!
With Brickboard and Volvospeed I have learned enough to help diagnose and repair my car to some degree. People I know who own other cars simply take it right to the garage (or ignore the problem).
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I think there are not equivalent boards for Japanese cars precisely because they don't fail that often.
I wouldn't entirely fall for Volvo's great reputation for safety. All cars today come with airbags and crumple zones. I spoke with someone that supplied safety testing equipment to automotive manufacturers. I asked him who made the safest cars. He said: Honda.
I think Volvo has gotten a lot of mileage (pardon the pun) on their old safety record. I wouldn't bankrupt my future financially solely to buy into their reputation for safety. Check the available crash test results. Japanese cars routinely score with the top of the bunch.
Good luck.
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Well thanks for your opinion, but I am a firm Volvo fan and was only asking for advice on Volvo models I am not interested in other cars. I am not betting on my life, I check safety ratings for cars before buying and I will not purchase one that puts my life in danger.
If you think all the Japanese cars are as safe as Volvos, explore this website with independent crash test results:
Honda Accord (1994-1997)
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95009.htm
Volvo 850/S70 (1993-2000)
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95005.htm
rear crash, newer models:
Volvo
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_volvo.htm
Honda
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_honda.htm
Toyota
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/head_restraints/head_toyota.htm
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Add me to the "buy a japanese car" group. A 10+ year old Volvo is no place for someone on a tight budget. Sorry. Live with the Toyota,Honda or Nissan until your finances improve then search out your next Volvo.
volvo
--
Geo
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I'm not actually on a "tight budget" I have a good steady income - it's just that I was not expecting to buy a car right now and since I want to take it with me, I need to huy it outright rather than finance it (need to hold title to import car). In fact my budget will eb improving once I move back to Canada to a higher paying job with lower livin expenses :)
I could afford to buy a practically new car right now if I were to finance it with the credit union, but then I couldn't import it with me. And, since cars are about twice as expensive in Ontario even considering exchange rate (and good luck finding ones with no rust for a good price) it makes more sense to buy here.
So, I can afford to fix normal things over the next few years, I just didn't want to pour $1500 into a car that is not likely to live much longer and that I can't trust to get me 3000 miles. It's more a matter of sudden unexpected expenses - $850 spent last week, then at least $1500 more to fix this one or $5000-6000 for a nicer replacement. I don't know how many of you have $8k in cash lying around to buy a car on short notice, wish I did!
I looked through the listings, no good prices on japanese cars here - all older and higher miles than the Volvos, small and uncomfortable. Personally I just hate them. I like to feel comfortable in my car!
Actually here is the one I am going to see tonight, putting aside concerns for my finacial well-being (I appreciate the concern) what do you think of this deal?
Original owner, says he had timing belt done at 80k, and all regular maint. has all records, and 5 speed manual. Plus, it's already a Canadian car - easy to import - daytime running lights, in kilometers. Low miles. Guy says no leaks, problems or concerns (I will be getting a pre-purchase check at indie volvo place once I have decided on a car).
1998 Volvo S70
$6,900(Or Best Offer) (hoping he'll come down to 6k)
Mileage 94,000 miles
Body Style Sedan Transmission Manual
Doors 4 Condition Excellent
Drive Train FWD
Exterior Color Blue
Interior Color Gray
Features: A/C: Front, A/C: Rear, Cruise Control, Power Locks, Power Steering, Remote Keyless Entry, Bucket Seats, Airbag: Driver, Airbag: Passenger, Airbag: Side, Alarm, Anti-Lock Brakes, Cassette Radio, CD Player, Premium Sound, Power Windows, Rear Window Defroster, Tinted Glass
Additional Selling Points: Peppy 5 speed, rear spoiler, traction control, heated sets. Original owner, meticulously maintained. Canadian car, odometer and speedometer are in Kilometers. Driven in California last 5 years.
Condition Description: Excellent condition in and out.
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KBB.com says $5-7,000. The low figure is dealer trade-in. $6,000 is high because it is not auto. Remember, many Americans(US) cannot drive a stick and that devalues the car by limiting the market.
It is also Canadian, which turns off a lot of buyers. Ask him how long it has been on the market, dealers wouldn't want it for a trade-in. For a car you want that fits your bill exactly, offer him $5000... if it is any good.
The S70 is just like the 850, except better. 1998 is the last of the good ones.
Tell him about AC leakdown and a new evaporator will be $1200, the $150 to get the sedan trunk shocks replaced, etc. Do NOT tell him you work on these cars. Tell him you cannot afford the dealer charges.
DO NOT TELL HIM YOU ARE GOING BACK TO CANADA!!!!
Klaus
--
98 V70Rawd(101Kmi), 95 854T(85K mi), 75 164E(173K mi)
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We not revisit the 700 series, avoiding the six-cylinder. I thought it was interesting that the NTSB rates the non-airbag 700s the same as the airbag 850s. Also, the 700s don't have that tendency to collapse around the driver's left foot in the left-hand drive models. My '87 740 is a low-tech wonder with 312,000 miles on it as of last Saturday. It's my daily driver through rural Middle Tennessee. I put between 40 and 300 miles on it a day, with no real problems. Having had the car for almost 7 years, I've attended to its 700 series problems - wiring harness, AC update, upgraded sways & shocks with those OEM for the turbo cars, and added a $50.00 lower chassis brace from IPD. Even the dreaded ZF transmission is still going strong. But that tired leather is irking my buttocks. The only reason I'm looking to buy that 850 with velour seats is better mileage, better comfort, stick-shift, and a change. But, having driven the goldcar for as long as I have, I've saved a ton of money toward the newcar.
Just my two centavos and maybe all my thoughts on the subject are worth.
Good Luck,
C.
--
In the Country of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is King
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I prefer to find cars from private owners rather than dealers or lots.
The later the better with any model, IMHO -- the best year for the 850 was 97, for example.
Look for a car that's not TOO LOW mileage, as that would indicate that it might have been sitting for some time (if the current owner has records for a significant period of time, this might not matter).
850s can last a lot of miles if they're taken care of -- I have 206K on my 97 850 and it's still tight as a drum.
Indy mechanics can be a good lead in this area -- they may know if there's a car they've been looking after that might be coming on the market.
--
87 745T, 97 855. Nine out of ten Black Labs recommend Volvo wagons!
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Here's an example of a private owner ad I found. My concerns with it are: "ABS light comes on intermittently" that sounds like the dreaded PNP switch failure. A/C "needs recharging" (compressor gone). Engine service light is on - he says because it needs 100k service, but of course could be much worse. AT the least, the PNP and timing belt which will need repacing will cost me about $1000. However, low miles and good price, perhaps could talk down for the service that it needs. Original owner, and has honestly tsated these faults whereas a dealer may hide them.
How to check for oil leaks?
1995 Volvo 850 Turbo
$4,000
Mileage 100,516
Cylinders 5 Cylinders
Body Style Sedan
Transmission Automatic
Doors 4
Condition Good
Drive Train 2WD
VIN YV1LS5713S2179509
Exterior Color Gray
Listing Date March 4, 2005
Interior Color Black
Features: A/C: Front, Cruise Control, Power Locks, Power Steering, Remote Keyless Entry, Bucket Seats, Leather Interior, Memory Seats, Power Seats, Airbag: Driver, Airbag: Passenger, Airbag: Side, Alarm, Anti-Lock Brakes, Power Windows, Alloy Wheels, Sunroof/Moonroof
Additional Selling Points: Single owner car. Car has been always serviced at scheduled intervals at Volvo Dealerships. Car runs GREAT!! Immaculate Interior. . . . . . . Only issues with car are: Dent on right hand side, happended while parking car in lot. Trim on right side has fallen off (is in trunk). Plastic coating on roof rack strip is peeling. Car needs 100k mile service. AC coolant needs to be recharged. ABS light comes on intermittently. . . . . . . Otherwise, car runs great! Has been serviced religiously. Selling since I have a new car. Serious buyers only, since I have priced the car well and have put numerous photos on web for you to review. CASH ONLY.
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posted by
someone claiming to be cley
on
Wed Mar 9 07:16 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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My '95 850T that needed recharging needed the A/C evaporatator and not the compressor. The evaporator is usually the 1st part of the A/C to go.
The ABS light doesn't have anything to do with the PNP switch. ABS has to do with brakes. PNP switch is in the button near the auto gear shift that used to cause problems before it was replaced a couple of times under warranty with a better design part. It may be suspect in the intermittent no-start problem that is common with this model.
I love driving my car, still like the looks, and hope it lasts several more years. I finally just replaced the evaporator after recharging for a couple of years then going through a summer in FL without A/C at all.
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I have a 95 Turbo which PO replaced rt front fender. The side molding fell off because the right fender was pushed back and the door molding touched when opening the door.
As good as it sounds, it still has tranny problems, abs problem, and AC problem. And just reading the ad, I have a hard time trusting the owner.
Look around for more cars. You know that if you buy an 850 you will need at least another $1000 just to get it "right".
Check out the real wheel drivers. There are VCOA clubs which have 'want' ads, IPD has ads, and this site. Look everywhere! Saw some 740's under $1500.
Are you sure about Canada requiring cars to be younger than 84?
Klaus
--
98 V70Rawd(101Kmi), 95 854T(85K mi), 75 164E(173K mi)
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I saw the car last night and walked away. Guy didn't think that having the engine check light on and ABS flashing was a big deal, tires were badly worn on the outside, he didn't know what a timing belt was...
I am going to keep looking :)
I will re-check the import info I sure did like my '87 740, I could easily live with one of those again. Or the updated 940 I am told is good in 1994 and 95.
How about the 1998 S70 I mentioned above? Going to see it tonight!
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FYI Consumer Reports puts the '99 and '00 V70s on its list of "Reliable Used Cars," but the '98 and '01 V70/XC are on the "Used Cars to Avoid" list as is the '02 V70.
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Do you know why?
My mechanic says the 98 S70 is a great car but watch fro TRACS problems. Since the one I am looking at is manual that's not a problem...
I think I may be able to negotiate a lower price. THe Blue Book value for my area for this car comes to $6600 for "excellent" condition. THey are asking $6900, plus it has Canadian units which is a disadvantage for selling to Americans. I think I could get them down to $6000 but the car has brand new pirelli's on it, just had timing belt replaced 2000 miles ago, new brake pads, and is in superior condition. So I don't know how low they will go.
The nice one-owner used Volos are being snapped up around here half the time I call I get "sold" and the ad was only placed that day! However used Volos are plentiful here.
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