posted by
someone claiming to be jiffy
on
Wed Jan 4 05:38 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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I had a set of what I thought were 1968 122 wheels and hub caps that I bought and then had to sell, as I had to sell my 122, and I sold them as 122 rims but now I find out that they most likely are not 122 rims but are instead 140 rims.
I thought that the "ribbed" hubcaps that I had seen were only on 1968 122's. I know that a lot of things on the '68 122 were different from earlier 122's and were early 140 parts, like the steering linkage and some other things. I also thought that the brakes might be different. I am going to have to suck up the shipping expenses on these wheels/ hubcaps/ and trim rings from Alaska, so I need to figure out what these rims are and if it is worth it to pay for shipping again on them!
I was told when I bought them that they were from a '68 122 and they looked like 122 rims to me! I had to sell the 122 before I ever had a chance to put these on the car and I was saving them for the day when I would be able to buy another one which has never came about...
Thanks in advance,
P.S.
Anyone want a full set of these rims?
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The wheels on my 69 164 look like 122 wheels but have a 4¼" bolt circle
rather than a 4½" circle like the 122. Check the part number stamped
near the bolt circle - that'll tell you for sure.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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posted by
someone claiming to be jiffy
on
Wed Jan 4 14:54 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for your reply. DO you then dis-agree with the post below yours by vvpete in where he states that late 122, i.e. 1968 rims, and early 140 rims, i.e. 1967 and 1968 at least, were interchangable? I do know for certain that certain things on the 1968 122 ONLY were identical to early 140's and different from any other 122. If you have a '67 122 and a '68 122 side by side with their hoods open you can see differences.
Thanks for your reply
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Not at all! I didn't say that!
Usually when one refers to a 122 he means the vast majority of them, which
have the 4½" bolt circle and can use Ford and Chrysler rims.
Like the 1800, they apparently changed in 68 or 69 (of which there are mighty
few in the US and not many elsewhere either) to the smaller bolt circle.
The main thing I AM saying is: LOOK AT THE PART NUMBER. If it is different,
the wheel is different. If it is the same.....
BTW the year model shown on the title may well be the year the car was sold
and NOT the manufacturing model year. This has caused LOTS of confusion,
especially in those jurisdictions where cars are dutiable and English, if
spoken at all, is spoken with difficulty and poorly understood. Getting it
corrected may be well-near impossible.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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posted by
someone claiming to be jiffy
on
Wed Jan 4 16:06 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Thank you much for your reply.
The rims that were off of a 1968 122S have the part number 677100 stamped on them. It seems to be listed as a 140 part number, but then since they were in the process of stopping production of the 122 series and because this rim also fit the early 140 would they have stamped the same rims with a different number for both cars?
I guess because I had two friends each with 1968 122's I thought that the differences were better known. I did not know that the wheels I had would not fit the earlier models, as I was unaware as seemingly most others are as well, that not all 122 rims are interchangeable. I did know that the '67 and earlier models and the '68 models did have lots of differences though.
I can understand that by saying a 122 rim that people would usually mean the most common one, but now I have learned that there are actually two different sizes that are both factory 122 wheels. Go figure that I, of course, end up with the ones that people don't usually want.
I would not have bought them had I known that, as I bought them for a '67 which I sold before using these, and I certainly would have disclosed this when I listed them and sold them as well as now the buyer is pissed that I sold him rims that he thinks are not even off of a 122 and seemingly feels that I deliberatly lied to him or am just a complete idiot!! Like I can't tell the difference between a 122 and an actual 140! I am going to refund his money of course, but I just want to be exhonerated I guess from making someone think that I would purposfully mislead them.
Sorry, for the rant.
Just wanted to let you know where I was coming from.
Thanks again.
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No, I think that 677100 is a unique part number for a unique rim and that it
was designed for the 140/164. Those are indeed the rims that my 1969 164 came
from the factory with, and still has on it. (I've had the car since 1971 when
I bought it from a lieutenant who was managing the golf course at Ft. Amador,
Canal Zone, now Panama.)
Remember that the 122 was being phased out at that time and that in an effort
to retain some of the market share left (those who for one reason or other
couldn't see themselves in such a boxy car) Volvo added features to BOTH the
122 and the 1800, including the later dual path braking system, collapsible
steering column, etc. In the process the newer 4¼" bolt circle was introduced
to take advantage of the rear disk brakes on the 1800 and probably since the
same parts were already being made for the 1800s (as well as the 140/164)
they used them on the very late 122s as well. Keep in mind that an AWFUL LOT
of 67 and earlier 122s were made, back to 1960 when they had the B16 engine,
and you cans see what a small proportion of the total production the 68s, 69s
and maybe a few 70s were. Personally I have had a 63 122, a 67 132 and two
66 222s. NEVER had a later one. BTW the first 140s, through 1968, had B18
engines too!
Also remember that the 1800 was made in various forms through 1973 so it was
prudent to use parts that would continue to be available on the last 122s.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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I own a 1970 120, it has the same bolt pattern as the earlier cars, only the 1800E/ES were changed.
Regards
Pete
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posted by
someone claiming to be jiffy
on
Thu Jan 5 06:26 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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So what are your hubcaps like?
Do you also then disagree with the post in this thread by vvpete?
I appreciate your feedback, thank you.
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My hubcaps are smooth faced.
Wheels stamped 677100 are 4.5 J wheels used on a 164 up to chassis number 32399, and probably 140's as well though I haven't checked.
Every 120 I've ever worked on has had the same stud PCD on the wheels, and it's different from that on a 140/164/1800E/1800ES/240 etc. All the cars with the later stud pattern have rear disk brakes.
The early 140 hubcap is the same diameter as a 120 hubcap, but has pressings in the face, the 120 hubcap is smooth, apart from the circle in the centre.
All sorts of stuff was changed on the late 120 series cars, but it is largely deletions, bonnet stripe, over riders, door pockets etc, or safety related stuff like the dual circuit brakes. In essence they were trying to differentiate those late cars from the 140, for instance on my 1970 121 2 door the handbrake lever is painted black rather than chromed.
As I say, I have a proper 1970 full dual circuit brake car, which as far as I know were never supplied to the US, and even it has early stud spacing despite the fact that the dual circuit setup is essentially 1800E/1800ES. This is different again from the US 1968 dual circuit brake setup. All those late European spec cars had rear drum brakes. There is only one drum for the whole model range, all ages, all models, all markets. Ergo, the stud spacing is the same on all the cars.
If you look at a parts book there are listings for 4 wheel disk braked 120's, I've never personally seen one. I doubt one made it to the States, there is a road test of one in Australia.
Regards
Pete
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Having had a '68 144S and my brother had a '68 122S wagon, the wheels and hubcaps were identical. I later switched the wheels and caps to the much stronger and wider '72 140 wheels with screw down hubcaps, which most folks condider the 140 wheel. I believe the '67 140 was the same, too.
--
'89 245 sportwagon, destroyed by hit & run driver, RIP. '04 V70 2.5 T Sportwagon, 12k mi and '91 245 5-speed, 209k mi, replaced the '89
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posted by
someone claiming to be jiffy
on
Thu Jan 5 06:25 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Hey vvpete, thanks for your reply; it seems many others don't believe that any of the '68 122's had different wheels. Did your 122 have rear disc brakes, or did they just have a different bolt pattern on the drum?
I did always wonder why on so many '68 122's I have always seen the different hub caps on them and now I am pretty sure that they put the different hub caps on the cars that had the different size rims! I can't believe for a minute that so many 122 owners would all just change their hub caps and only on the '68!
Thanks
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My brothers 122 wagon had 4 wheel disc brakes, as well as a B20B engine and manual OD trans. He got it while in the Navy in '72 from another sailor who had gotten it from overseas. I had always thought the '68 122S with B20 was a rare car, and that all of the '68's had the 4 wheel discs. I was understanding that '68 was the last year they made them and they went out as a really nice upgraded car. My brother had a '65 122 sedan previously, so we knew the comparisons to it, and he always made a point of mentioning it was so special.
My '68 144S by comparison came with a B18 and automatic, 4wheel discs which was a dog of a car until I put in a '72 B20B and M410 OD tranny. He would always joke about it, citing 'old school' was better.
--
'89 245 sportwagon, destroyed by hit & run driver, RIP. '04 V70 2.5 T Sportwagon, 12k mi and '91 245 5-speed, 209k mi, replaced the '89
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posted by
someone claiming to be jiffy
on
Wed Jan 4 14:22 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Thank you for your feed back. It makes me feel better in that I don't feel like I completly mis-represented the wheels. And it makes me feel better that the person who sold them to me was telling me the truth when I purchased them.
I did know that the '68 had some 140 parts on it, but I didn't realize the bolt patterns of the wheels were different.
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They're not, ALL 120's had the same stud pattern, the only Volvo of he period on which the stud pattern changed was from the P1800 to 1800E 1800ES. The hubcaps will fit either a 120 or a 140 Wheel. The stud pattern is different, they merely look the same.
Regards
Pete
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There are only 2 styles of hubcap for the 120, Early up to 1964 with the red centre, and the smaller later stainless ones, with the black centre. The 140 style hubcap will fit a later type Amazon wheel, but they were never factory fitted as far as I know.
Regards
Pete
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posted by
someone claiming to be jiffy
on
Wed Jan 4 14:19 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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The hub caps I am talking about look identical to the stainless ones with the black center, the almost baby moon style, except these ones I am talking about have "ridges" that go out from the outside of the small black circle in the middle. I have a picture but I don't know how to post it.
Thanks for your feedback.
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