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After some minor maintenance and lubrication, I've loaned my P1800E to a desparate friend. I drove it out to her and she drove me back home in it. On the return trip and after merging onto another highway, the overdrive refused to engage. Tried flipping it on and off a couple times. Eventually left it on. After about 3-4 miles it finally kicked on and stayed on.
I've driven the car on the same route many times since I bought it and expereinced a minor delay in the OD kicking on, nothing too serious - seemed to be related to the rpms. This new delay was way beyond the previous experiences. I'm told that it's working fine now - but the car is mainly seeing city use so the OD is not being used much.
What sort of problem could this indicate? Or was this just a fluke?
While I don't care much about the rusty-bondoed little monster, it's innards are destined for my 4-gear Amazon, so keeping the OD working properly is a priority.
Any advice is appredicated.
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1967 P220 Amazon, 1972 145S, 1976 245 DL, 1983 245 DL, 1986 745 GLE, 1990 745 GL, 1995 945....
You mean to tell me that Volvo makes cars that are *NOT* Wagons?!?
1971 P1800E... Not a wagon, but it's just a donor car for the Amazon..
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How does the OD engage once it makes the attempt? Taking about 1/2 second, which is normal, or longer with some slipping and "chatter" as it tries to lock up?
Low fluid usually does not take the delay time engagement scenario. Low fluid usually tries from the start to engage with chatter and slippage then over time not engage at all due to air getting beat into the fluid.
A delay like you indicate is more likely to be a sticky 4th gear switch, bad or dirty electrical connection, or dirty solenoid.
If the delay gets less as the vehicle warms up, 4th gear switch. Get longer as the vehicle warms up, solenoid, with a no disengagemnt problem showing up later. Random times electrical connections.
If the actuating piston O-rings are just failing, the symptom you describe will occur within a specific time delay. There may or may not be slippage or "chatter" as the OD engages.
I'd guess the 4th gear switch at this time.
Duane
P.S. Once this unit is out to make the change to the Amazon, refurbish the actuating piston O-rings and the solenoid before you install. A lot easier with the unit on the floor than from underneath.
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Start by making sure the transmission fluid is topped up. Low fluid will cause delay and eventually no engagement at all...
Might be a good idea to just change the fluid.
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Yep, it's probably low oil. My usual trick to add a half quart of oil to that transmission was to remove the plug, then stick in the A/C drain tube, then use a funnel and pour the oil in from inside the car. I always just used regular 30 wt. motor oil in it.
I should have given you a little umbrella speedometer drive seal. I got two of them about a year ago, and put on on the PV right away, and never got around to crawling around under the 1800 to put it on it.
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I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.
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Are we just talking SAE90 Gearbox oil here?
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1967 P220 Amazon, 1972 145S, 1976 245 DL, 1983 245 DL, 1986 745 GLE, 1990 745 GL, 1995 945....
You mean to tell me that Volvo makes cars that are *NOT* Wagons?!?
1971 P1800E... Not a wagon, but it's just a donor car for the Amazon..
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Straight 30 weight non-detergent basic dinosaur stuff. No additives... not multi-weight. Go with what John already has in there... that's what the Volvo recommended from new.
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Yeah, the M40 (non-OD) boxes called for 90 wt gear oil, buyt the M41 OD boxes say 30 wt. motor oil in the owners manual. Of course, I hear about people using motor oil, atf fluid, gear oil, Redline MTF, all sorts of stuff, they don't seem to be terrible picky.
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I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.
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I don't understand. Mechanically, except for the OD unit, the M40/41 are supposed to be the same. Why the difference in lube oil? If the M41 calls for 30 wt motor oil, I guess no harm in using the same oil in an M40 then?
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...and the bricks keep on rolling
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Well, the OD required 30wt oil, which is the driving force behiind specifying it on the M41. I'm not sure about difference internally, I took my PV's M40 apart to scavenge syncro cones to use in repairing its new M41 and didn't notice any real difference in bearing types. Although in typical Volvo fashion, many of the parts that looked alike were actually subtly different (oy, after hours of trying to reassemble a mix-n-match of the best looking parts from each trans I checked part numbers, and used calipers and found they were subtly different, the only parts that actually interchanged were, thankfully, the syncro cones).
Gear oil is typically a little more clingy. From what I understand, the viscosity is measured at a different temperature for gear oil standards, and 90wt gear oil isn't that much different than 30wt motor oil. But I guess the additives are different, gear oil is cheaper because it doesn't have all the additives required to make it more stable in the more dynamic and dirty environment of an engine.
Really, I don't think you'd notice much difference at all. But no advantage to using 30WT.
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I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.
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I believe you answered your own question when you added the phrase "...except for the OD unit," to the second sentence in your post. (You're aware that in the case of the M41, the gearbox and overdrive units use a common lube supply, yes?) The overdrive unit's lube requirements are more like an automatic transmission than a 4-speed, due mainly to the fact it has a lube pump in it.
The shop manuals typically list 30w or 10w40 as an "alternate" oil for the M40, so I would say you're okay using the lighter lube. Might even get you a couple of 10ths mpg increase?
Okay, hopefully I answered your gearbox question satisfactorily, now you can go to the 140/160 area and answer *my* M40 question. :)
Gary L.
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1971 142E ITB racer, 1973 1800ES, 2002 S60 T5
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I've always assumed it is because the gears in the M41 use needle bearings instead of the solid bronze type bushing type in the M40. However, I have heard that some M41s also used the solid style. Of the two M41s I rebuilt, they both used needles. The half dozen M40s were all solid.
Everyone has their opinion, but I've stuck with 80W/90 in M40s and 30W in the M41s and have not had gearbox issues.
Just to throw a wrench in though, I use Mobil1 10W/30 in my M46 and I don't know why!
They all are over 100K and shift well.
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'60 544, '68 220S, '70 145S, '72 144E, '86 745T
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As for your wrench throwing... why 10-30 in the M46? Does that not call for ATF?
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-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Hey Matt
You are correct! ATF is what the factory spec'd.
My reason for change goes back to shortly after I bought the '86 745 (around '88). A friend owned a Volvo independent shop, also had a 745T M46.
He said that for heavy duty service, VOLVO recommended 10W-30 in the gearbox.
Took him for his word although I wouldn't say the car has ever seen heavy service. I choose Mobil1 only because that is what I used in the engine, still do. Haven't had an issue yet, overdrive doesn't slip and I think I picked up 1+ mpg.
I don't know, maybe it was just an urban myth.
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'60 544, '68 220S, '70 145S, '72 144E, '86 745T
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