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1. Throttle body cleaned [supposedly] 4 weeks ago by Shop #1 to correct stalling on start up and a "rattle" underneath. Shop #1 told me this was a temporary fix because I need a new engine - "something in your engine is broken and that is causing oil to get into this area". The "rattle" diagnosis: "just your engine"
2. Throttle body cleaned again last week by Shop #2 because still stalling. Shop #2 also replaced PCV canister/Air intake hose/PCV valve/and cleaned PCV vacuum nipple. Shop #2 had not addressed the "rattle" problem the day I picked up the car - and I don't know why.
3. Shop #2 Bottom-line: Took the car back to Shop #2 to find the root of the "rattle", but moreover, because my idle now is way high after their throttle body/PCV etc. work. Shop #2 now advises I need a new catalytic converter [the rattle] and another $300-400$ just to diagnose the reason for the new high idle. I okayed the catalytic converter, but couldn't justify $300-400 for exploratory surgery - especially when the idle was fine when I dropped off the car. Shop #2 has now declined to put in the catalytic converter without the addressing the idle issue. I picked up the car today after dropping another $85.00 for probably nothing more than what they knew the first time.
4. My bottom-line: Want to keep my car - love it! Don't know which way to turn now, however, or who to trust to give me an adequate assessment of the car. Don't mind regular maintenance [as that has occurred since day 1], just don't want to pour bucks into the car if she's terminal - i.e. Shop #1 says I need a new engine, nor be forced to pay a "Expert Volvo" specialist $300-$400, at minimum, just to figure out what's causing a problem that did not exist before I took the car to them.
5. And if you have read this far – many, many thanks, and also for any feedback you may have that will arm me with information I need, or guide me in the right direction to keep my baby on the road for many years to come.
All the best to you and yours – Laura,
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New engine my a**! The ceramic is loose in the cat? There are DIY solutions to that one that cost nothing.
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I agree that your car is probably still in pretty good shape. We have driven two Bricks over 230k miles. Our '88 740 GLE was a real trooper, and a dealer mechanic once told me that we had what was essentially a 240 motor.
One thing that you should do is crawl (CRAWL!!!) under your car and hit the cat with your fist or some other soft implemsnt and see if it rattles. If it is the heat shield, which is common, it will sound tinny. If it is the cat, you will hear the stuff rattle inside it. The inner part of the cat is kinda like a ceramic sponge. First it will crack, then it will break up, sometimes passing chunks down line to the muffler. I got an aftermarket one for $270.
It pains me to hear of people who have a problem and they do not try the dealer. Sure, they can give you a big estimate if you ask them to get your brick in top shape. If they do, get it in writing and post it. Often you can take care of safety items first and make a plan for the rest.
Even $4000 is just 10 payments for many people, and that does not account for taxes and insurance.
The idea of posting another post to find a good service tech is a good one. I have located several good places for our globe-trotting daughter.
Good luck
--
'96 855R,'64 PV544, '67 P1800, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 415,000 miles put on 9 bricks
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If the shop just sprayed carb cleaner in the throttle body, they could have ruined your throttle position sensor. This can send the idle way high.
Don't ditch the car, engine is almost bulletproof.
Keep reading this forum, knowledge is power.
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All good advice. The nickname "Bricks" is for a reason. My 89 wagon, just clicked 337,XXX, by weeks end, it'll see 338,XXX. Has had "check engine" light on since 173,XXX...attempted corrections...still stays on. Average 29-30 MPG highway (usually 10-15 above posted), 26-28 in town. My rattle turned out to be a slightly loose connection at the flange where the exhaust pipe meets the manifold. Olegray (it's name) needs some way overdue attention, but has been running just fine.
Try to find a good indie shop that understands Volvos. Up this way there are several, (ex employees at Volvo dealerships) got feed up with the way the dealer fleeced their clients. The DC area should have several, as well.
Enjoy.
--
84, 242GLTi, 167K, 4+OD, not on the road yet; 89, 245 DL, 335K, M 47, daily driver; 93, 245, auto, 167K; daughters 84, 242 Ti, 193K ; and other toys.
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Hi Laura,
I will add to the consensus my opinion of your description of shop #1 - uninterested in helping you, and #2, unwilling to take responsibility for their poor workmanship.
If you read this list for any length of time, in many of our do-it-yourself stories the idle is high after throttle body maintenance. If the search engine worked, you could get hundreds of hits from this site on that symptom alone.
The reason for it is mostly always in the adjustments that are made to compensate for the dirty throttle body before the cleaning and those that must again be made after. There's a specific method to set the throttle plate, the idle bypass screw and the throttle position switch, with the end result being the switch has the computer controlling the idle when the pedal is not being pressed.
When misadjustment is not the reason, it is the idle valve itself has some of the same goo in it that clogged the throttle body, making it sticky. Cleaning of the idle valve should go hand-in-hand with throttle body maintenance.
This whole process is an hour's work for someone who's done it before.
I think you should find a new shop, and in parallel, seek out a copy of Robert Bentley's manual on Volvo 240. Knowledge will give you an edge. Most of the folks on this list will help you with that, too.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Show me a piano falling down a mine shaft, and I'll show you A-flat minor.
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I agree with the others.
Both "shops" were trying to swindle you -such is the nature of the auto business. Add to that their level of incompetence, and you should be looking for a local, independent Volvo mechanic.
Taking the car to the dealer is also a good choice. Service is just as important as knowledge. As another poster noted, at least your local Volvo dealer will warranty any repairs.
Rattle = something minor.
Cat. converter = if you have yet to replace that, good to do it, and you are good for the next 10 years
Throttle body = I can take mine off and clean it in less than 20 minutes. You got robbed on that, and I bet they did not put something back on.
Poor idle = USUALLY something simple and related to the throttle body, idle air control (easy to clean as well), and general maintainence. Could be anything from old wires, cracked vaccum hose, crusty idle air control, bad fuel pressure regulator, crusty cap & rotor...
You should buy a Bently Manual for your car ($20-$40 on Flee Bay), at least you'll be informed when you take it in for repairs.
--
Enem v15 cam, adj. cam gear, new head, trans cooler, stainless brake lines, e-fan, braces, IPD sways, 100% poly bushed, Bils, boxed front & rear arms, wagon lowering springs, FWD rims, 25/32mm adapters, powder coated stuff, zero mile-d, & more
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Listen to Dave. My 88 wagon had a rattle it was aweful. Definately the heat shield. Without any engine tools (timing light and tach) its hard to say what is wrong with the idle. Check it yourself or have someone other than a shop do it. If it way to high you need to ground out the test port for the IAC and set the base settting to 750rpm.
Also make sure they replaced the air intake hose they always develop leaks. My wagon has 325,000 KM's and it runs like a dream. These engines never need to be replaced only if you run it with no oil but even then they are hard to kill.
If you have no help for this. Take it to a Volvo dealer. They may be expensive but after what you just spent it may have been cheaper to go with them in the first place (they also warrant the work they do so if your not happy take it back). I have had many bad experiences with so called "Volvo" shops. Since then I've had to replace many stripped bolts and the none volvo parts last 2-3 years usually. Anything I don't do myself I have the dealer do. They actually have been very good to me and I now get 15% discount on all parts. Don't ruin you're 240 by leaving it in the wrong hands.
88 was an awesome year for this car. It is so simple and well layed out to work on.
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Good advice. And speaking of discounts. You might want to check into joining the Volvo Club of America VCOA. Fun club, nice magazine, and participating dealers and repair shops give discounts to its members.
http://www.vcoa.org/theclub/
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Laura,
You don't need a new engine, a 240, if given even marginal maintenance will go 250K without issues, way way more if you change oil regularly. Oil in the intake is common, that's where the crankcase ventilation system dumps the gasses, some oil goes with them. Cleaning the TB is routine maintenance.
'88 is arguably the best year for the 240, and a 245 is the best of all 200s. The '88 has all the bugs of the earlier years worked out and the robust and simple LH 2.2 injection system. The rattle is probably the heat shield on the exhaust, a common thing. If you were getting intermittent power loss I would say it could be the cat' has broken up but if it's just a metalic rattle probably the 'shield.
High idle, look for loose hoses, the idiots probably left something off causing an air leak. If everything is hooked up there is a black knob under the throttle body, try turning it in (clockwise) to reduce the air bypassing the throttle plate. There is an idle control motor to give a constant idle but leaks/adjustments can overcome it's range.
BTW both shop 1 and 2 are idiots, at least as far as Volvos go. Your car does not have a PVC valve. It does have a breather box, flame trap, and the associated hoses.
If you don't do your own work I'd post a "need good shop in XXXXXX" post to locate a shop near you that won't make things worse.
Good luck.
--
Dave Shannon
Durango, CO
'63 P-210
'67 1800s
'88-240
'06 F250 Diesel
my pages
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Many thanks Dave and to everyone else who has responded to my dilemma. It is good to hear that my 240 is not headed to the scrap pile. I have the Bentley manual and have taken it to every mechanic, for their reference, ever since 1999 when I parted ways from my dealer due to their $4000.00 estimate to fix my car’s woes. [Turns out – it was fixed for under $500.00 at another place– go figure?] I have taken the Bentley manual to every mechanic since then that has worked on the car, and they have all gotten their knickers in a twist when I have asked them to reference the manual if need be.
I am not a mechanic – just an owner of a 1988 Volvo who loves her car and wants to keep on driving it for years to come.
I live in the Washington DC area and would be willing to go as far as Baltimore [N, S, E, or W] to find a mechanic that cares as much about my car as I do. Any recommendations as to where to go next – i.e. a mechanic, are appreciated.
Can’t thank you all enough - Laura,
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Laura I hear ya! Although I have been fairly lucky to find somewhat honest and competent mechanics (it helps being European, just like the cars they fix), I was always a little disappointed too because they never really seem to care as much as I do...interior not put back together...plasticky things missing or broken...who cares, as long as it's fixed, right? My new mechanic is a pain to get to (rural GA) but he's meticulous (also happens to work on his own airplane) and very passionate about these cars. He even filled up the washer fluid at my last oil change - nobody has ever done that. Minor detail, but I was touched.
My advice: find shop #3, someone who has been working on these cars for many many years and is not afraid of an 1988 Volvo. I'd stay away from shops that have just recently added Volvo to their service. Chances are they have not seen enough older Volvos to know how to work on them, and seem especially clueless if there is no onboard diagnostics.
I had an oil leak/loss issue and called a Japanese shop that now also services Volvos. They heard my (a woman's) voice, oil loss, 240k miles, 1987 Volvo and without even seeing the car told me outflat I needed a new engine and quoted me $ 3000-4000. I asked about the flame-trap, and they said, yeah, everybody wants a $ 20 fix and that with that many miles it needed a new engine. That statement alone told me they know nothing about Volvos. Needless to say, I didn't go there. Turns out it WAS the flame trap. $ 85 parts and labor. And the car is still running strong.
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Laura:
I could not have stated it more accurately than Dave has... you ran into two bad shops! Dave has bailed me out more than once with advice and information, so don't hesitate to follow his advice!
jorrell
--
89 244 171K miles, 92 245 236K miles, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup
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Here is what I would do I take it back to shop 2 and demand they refund me for the high idel work seeing as it was there fault to begin with. Is there a check engine light on or anythiny warning light at all if so find a friend with a code reader to tell you what the problem is then you will know for your self grab a manual for your self and then work on it or take it to the shop but be armed with knowledge from the start.
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No 200 is setup to use a code reader, at best they flash LEDs at you from under the hood, OBD 1, code readers are OBD 2. '88 was pre check engine light, that started with '89.
--
Dave Shannon
Durango, CO
'63 P-210
'67 1800s
'88-240
'06 F250 Diesel
my pages
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