|
|
|
I finally got my the head on my '93 960 installed. I put the cams back the way they came out and installed the cam cover (thanks for the C-clamp and hard wood rig). I lined up the crank and cam and installed the timing belt. When I rotated it by hand, I found that after a while (before one full revolution) the crank will stop and not move due to piston and valve contact. I took the belt off and tried different combination of cam and crank movement until I found one where if all 3 were aligned and timing belt installed, engine could be manually rotated without interference. I rotated it about 3 times and it still lined up. So I released tensioner and called it done. After adding sparkplugs, anti-freeze and battery, I tried cranking the car but it spins and won't run. It cranks and sounds like it wants to start and run, but the battery will get tired after so much cranking. I swapped out battery and cranked some more, but it kept acting like it wants to start. I went and bought 4 gallons of 93 octane fuel and added it to the 3 or so gallon in the tank. I was worried that maybe the fuel in the tank is old from the car not being cranked in many months. I cranked some more but it kept acting like it wants to catch on and run. I went out and bought 6 sparkplugs for the car (Champion) and swaped out the Bosch platinum that was in there. I cranked and cranked, but it still won't run.
Is it possible for both cams and crank pully to be line up and still be out of timing? I would expect that if it is lined up and there is no interference, then the timing must be ok? What would you suggest for me to do to help me hear this car run, after 3 months ownersship.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Well, I have good news and bad news.
I did compression test and all 6 cylinders had good compression. I tested for spark on number 1 cylinder and it appeared that there was no spark. I had lost the original key to the car about a month ago and had the dealer order me one. When I picked up the key, the parts guy at the dealership mentioned that on these cars, just ordering the spare key won't be enough. He said that I will have to tow the car in and have them program the key to the car, otherwise the car won't start with the new key. Remembering this, I decided to visit another dealership and confirm since I didn't think the '93 960 has chipped keys. The new dealership confirmed that the '93 key does not require programming and suggested that I pull the codes and see what the computer thinks is wrong. I quickly learnt how to pull the code and did that. I am not sure I did it correctly, but I got a 2-2-3 from the #2 terminal on the B post, which meant Signal missing to/from idle air control valve. The symptom for this is Engine difficult to start; low idle speed. The code I got from the number 1 terminal on the A post 1-2-2 was not available on the look-up table of codes. Anyway, I went ahead and unplugged the 3 visible connectors around the intake trunk, and then reconnected them. During the time I was trying to pull the codes, I noticed a flashing upward pointing arrow on the dash which I had never seen before. The light was also flashing on 2 of the 3 shift options next to the gear selector lever. I also noticed that the check engine light that was on when I turned the key to ignition on was not on anymore. I didn't hear the fuel pump either when I turn ignition on. I decided to reinstall all spark plugs and try jumping the car again. I got everything connected and was surprised to see that when I turned the key, the fuel pump hummed, the check engine light came up with all the other lights, and the flashing arrow and blinking light at the gear lever was gone. I tried starting it and it almost started. I let the battery charge a little while and tried again. This time, it really wanted to start. I left the battery to charge off my other car which was idling beside the 960 and providing the boost through jump cables. I went in the house and wasted some time, then came back to it. I tried it while depressing the accelerator slightly and to my exhilaration, it shook and vibrated into the life. The car had started and was running at last! I let it idle a while before gradually removing my foot off the pedal. It kept idling and sounded smooth, but for the tappet noise coming from the top of the engine. The compressor kicked in as the climate control was doing its thing. I let it idle a while as I peeked around the engine. I decided to remove the jump cable and maybe do a test drive, but as soon as I removed the jump cable, the engine died. New battery time as I am tired of taking this battery to AutoZone to be charged.
Now for the bad news. I noticed oil dripping on the ground under the timing belt area. I took timing belt cover off and it was coming from behind the two front cams. I noticed lesser dripping of oil in the back also. It was coming from the camshaft position sensor end. I had replaced the one rear seal on the right cam (facing the engine) because I couldn't find it during the reinstall. That was the only area that didn't leak oil. I wish now that I had replaced all 4 seals before putting all these things back together, cos I sure don't feel like taking the cam cover off again.
My question is; (1) is this something I can replace without taking cam cover off or is it a job I am better off letting the dealer or a Volvo specialist do? (2) Is it possible that I didn't seat the seals properly? I just tried to keep them straight and then clamped down the cam cover using the C-clamp and wood setup. I never pushed anything in there to make sure they were still lined up.
I reused them because they looked ok to me. I hesitated a lot at putting the cam cover on due to my fear that something like this will happen if the seals were not seated properly. (3) Have this happened to anyone and how do I go about fixing this? I obviously can't drive the car until this is corrected, as the oil loss is significant for just a few minutes of idling.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hello, I am glad it is running. I had some bad thoughts after your first post. Use some white out and mark your cams as you align the crank to its mark. It makes it easier to see if everything is aligned later. Next, remove timing belt idler, two 12 mm, this will give you enough slack to remove the belt from the cams. Next, take a small center punch and mark the cam gear to the cam on both cams. This next step is more difficult if you have no air tools, remove the three bolts that hold the cam gear onto the cam. You will need a holding device for the exhaust cam, you can get a way with two painters stirrring sticks and a large pair of channel lock pliers, just be careful you don't cut into the gear teeth and cause a bur on the teeth. Once the cam gears are off, replace the seals. The Volvo seals last the longest, but aftermarket ones will work to, it just depends on how long you want the car to be trouble free. Once the seals are replaced install the cam gears and pay attention to the center punch marks that you made so that the cam lines up the same as when you removed them. Replace the timing belt idler pulley and remove tensioner and recompress, don't forget the plastic "top hat", install tensioner and install timing belt, remove pin and check your cam timing, if everything lines up your ready to tackle the cam sensor end. The rear seal on the right side, or passenger side is not that tough after you get the two torq bolts out of the cam sensor, I personaly never use the torq bolts again, to much of a PITA. Next remove the ten mm bolt that holds the shutter wheel, with a 90 degree pick tool you shoul be able to remove the seal to get a little extra working room, you can remove the 15mm nut from the transmission mount and jack up on the transmission to tilt the engine forward a bit. With the seal out and the new seal in hand, grease the lip of the new seal and slide over the cam and then take the old seal and slide that along the cam. Next take the shutter wheel and install that with the bolt untill it is snug, remove once again the shutter wheel and the old seal, check with a mirror to make sure the seal is flush with the seal bore, if still protruding a bit take a second cam seal and repeat the procedure, but only turn the 10mm bolt about 4 turns after the shutter wheel makes contact with the seal. Once the seal is flush or a little below the seal bore put it all back together and you will be leak free. As for your spark plugs, I have found that the NKG v groove plugs are the best, then the Volvo plugs and Champion, Stay away from the Bosche platnims, real junk! Good luck with you 960 and remember 30,000 miles for the next timing belt, so you won't have to do the head thing again. Pauli
|
|
-
|
|
|
Looks like I will have to do the cam seal replacements by my self. I have ordered the two front and one rear for the cam position sensor end. I talked to the dealer and a Volvo specialist about doing the job for me and they all say the labor will be similar to doing a timing belt. This one Volvo shop quoted me $216 for the two front seal and $144 for the one real seal. That's $360 for just labor. Then I spoke to another shop that said it will be nice to have special tool but that his mechanics will remove the old seal with a screw driver. I asked him about the rear seal removal since working space is tight. He said that they will use their fingers and get it in there. I think the front won't be as bad, since you can see what you are doing. But the rear scares me. I will like to pull this job off this coming Saturday. I need all the encouragement from you guys and any tips regarding workarounds for the special tools mentioned in the book. Thanks for the 2 painters stirring stick and large channel locks, but I have no idea of what I am supposed to do with the stick. Are you talking of the ruler type sticks? Like insert the ruler between channel locks and cam wheels to protect cam wheel? I don't know what the shutter wheel is that you mentioned. I replaced all torx bolts during head reinstall. What is a 90 degree pick tool? I have electric impact wrench. I can also drive the car to my friend's shop and use his air impact wrench. Has anyone done the rear and front cam seals that can provide more guidance, please?
|
|
-
|
|
|
The car ('93 960) is running very well after the head job. The oil leak from the front cam seal stopped by itself. I removed the cam sensor in the rear and replaced the seal back there and the oil leak there has stopped also. The car is performing beautifully and I am getting to know it better (my first time with a Volvo). I am very impressed with the car and will drive Volvos for many years to come. There are a few things I will need to take care of to get the car to where I want it. I will like to flush all the fluids this coming weekend since we have an extra day off on Monday. That includes the brake fluid, coolant, engine oil and transmission fluid. I will like to replace or service the PCV system and flame trap (if applicable). Harsh road conditions are easily transmitted to the steering wheel. When I hit uneven/bumps on the road, the suspension components seem to rattle more than normal. I took the car to a brake shop last weekend and the said I could use a new ball-joint, outer tie-rod and shocks. Personally, I think it is more of a bushing thing that shocks. I think the shocks are still doing their job based on bounce tests while driving around town. The rear was sitting kinda low after being parked for many months, but since driving it around for about 20 miles, it now looks like the rear has come up. I was thinking that I will need new springs in the rear to fix the sag, but I don't think I will after all. Creeping over a fairly higher than normal speed bump at an apartment last weekend, the underside of the car scrapped slightly. If I had 3 grown ups in the car, they might have to get off the car while I creep over the bump. Does this mean I need springs in the back replaced? Also, the car drove smoothly for a day or two and now there is a little miss while idling or cruising. There is no pattern to it. Just a miss, miss miss, ....miss. This happens sometimes every 10 to 20 seconds or so. Then it can go a minute without missing. It happens the same way regardless if parked at the red light or in motion. It reminds me of a car trying to burn fuel that is contaminated. Do you advise adding water remover in the gas tank? The car was parked for 3 months after I bought it. I do not know how long it was parked with a broken timing belt before I bought it. Finally, when I start the car, the light on the dash that says SERVICE stays on for a while before going out. All the lights on the dash stay off during driving. I noticed that the speedometer is reading and letting me know what speed I am on, but the mile counter is not moving. Are they controlled separately? What do I need to do to fix this? I also need the driver's door mirror, if anyone has a spare. Tow truck company broke it while towing the car down to me after the purchase, and swore that it was not their fault. The dealer wants a lot for the door mirror.
I am hoping that some of you may have done most of these jobs mentioned above and maybe have advice for me on how to go about fixing these problems. The road harshness felt at the steering, the side mirror and the intermittent miss are tops on the priority list. Your input is highly anticipated and appreciated.
|
|
-
|
|
|
You could have some bad gass or you could have a coil going bad,maybe a ground wire for one of the power stages is not secure. I would see if you can pull a code and find if the miss is located in just one cylinder. If so swap the coil from that cylinder with another from a different cyl. If the skip stays in that cyl-then the powerstage is at fault-if the miss goes to another cyl-the coils at fault. Along with the above check all of your vacuum hoses with a fine tooth comb.
Poolman
|
|
-
|
|
|
Did you get the ground lead(s) connected at the top section of the cylinder head? There are either one or two of these. I think these may be ground returns for the power stages in the ingition system.
I have missed these before, and it will display exactly the symptoms you describe. No spark.
Once you get the engine started, it will probably run like crap for a minute as the hydraulic lifters are pumped up with oil.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Is everything still on their marks? From what you wrote, releasing the tensioner after doing your rotation test points to some slippage after you let out the tensioner. If every thing is still on their marks, then look and see if you are getting spark. Are all of the sensors connected? If you undid the ground connection on the drivers side engine mount, did you re-attach it?
I always release the tensioner before doing the hand rotation test. A pain sometimes but much more accurate.
DanR 94 964 322,000 miles (88,000 on the new engine)
--
DanR
|
|
-
|
|
|
Did you do a compression test? If one or more cylinders don't have compression, then it's an indication that the valves aren't closing during the compression stroke. That would be my first thing to check. If so, you'll need to get the cams back in alignment before you can proceed.
Also, it's theoretically possible the cams are properly aligned, but one or more valves is sticking. 960s are prone to the sticking valve problem. I'm not sure what the procedure is for reassembling the valves in the head. But, given the propensity of 960 sticking valves, I would expect that there should be a procedure to ensure that they're lubricated properly during assembly. Are you confident that this was done correctly?
The 960 can have one or both cams off by one or two teeth and the engine will spin with no interference. Ask me how I know. To answer your original question, yes, it's possible to be out of timing and still have no interference.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Thanks everyone for the prompt response. Always nice to know I can count on you guys when the going gets tough. No I have not done a compression test. It got dark on me, so I had to shut down until next time when I can work on the car (weekends....I work 8am to 5pm and don't get home until after 6pm when it is dark). Saturday and Sunday are the only days I can work on the car. I will do a compression test on Saturday and see what I get. I am suspecting that one of the cams might be one revolution off, hence not interfering but not sealing the combustion chamber at the right time. I take that back. It takes 2 revolutions of the crank pulley to get 1 revolution of the cam. So the cam can't be at one revolution off compared to the crank, right? Anyway, compression test will tell us what's going on in there. How to know which cam is off will be the biggie. It took about 6 or 7 installing and taking timing belt off and realigning of cam and crank pulley before I was able to find a combination that didn't result in interference. It got a little easier after I read the instruction again and discovered that slipping timing belt on is easiest when you start with the crank pulley, go counter clockwise and wrap around right cam next to power steering box, around left cam, around water pump and then slip unto tensioner pulley last. It helps to turn crank pulley clockwise a bit and take up all the slack between it and the right cam and then the belt will slide on easy. I was trying to put on the right or left cam pulley last and it was a frustrating fight. Just thought I'll point that out and save someone time in the future. I'll sure hate to have to remove tensioner each time and press it back in. That would have taken all my time and I won't get to the cranking part before darkness moves in. Belt will often jump 2 or 3 teeth on the left cam pulley during the manual engine rotation. I'll usually have to stop, remove belt and line that cam back up, then continue. Easier than undoing and pressing tensioner back with my 6 inch C-clamp
Regarding procedure to lubricate properly during install, I took the cam lifters out with a magnet and lined them up in a plastic container I bought from the dollar store, and then poured almost two quarts of fresh oil unto them until they were submerged in oil. They stayed there for over a month while I shipped the head off to Clearwater FL and had the 20 bent valves replaced. I bought the car with a broken timing belt, and of the 24 valves, 20 were bent. (All 12 exhaust and 8 intake valves). Clearwater replaced all 24 valves, had the head magna fluxed, skimmed and looking like new for $450. The have since raised their price on eBay to $600 after my order. When I placed the "buy it now" order, he argued that the 960 head is not that price. Since the ad said $400, he did it for that price. $50 was for shipping and insurance. Local shops around here (Houston TX) were quoting anywhere from 7 to 12 hundred dollars for the same job. After head was bolted on, I used magnet to take the cam lifters out of the oil and inserted them into the same location they came out of in the head. 3 or 4 were stubborn about going back in, but eventually did. They didn't loose much oil during the process.
All sensors were connected back securely and ground wires (2 between rear head and firewall) were connected also. Sparkplug seemed moist when removed after I got back from the parts store with new plugs. I even removed the cap off the bicycle type valve at the end of the fuel rail and fuel came out when the pin was depressed. I guess to check for spark, I'll have to install plug and hold it close to engine metal, away from the fuel rail area off course? Having done head gaskets on Honda Accords and Acura Legends (FWD) numerous times, this car was a pleasure to work on. It will be nice to hear it run and see what a Volvo drives like. It has an unbelievable wide steering angle for such a big car though. Hope to get it running this weekend, and then I'll take her out. She and I will definitely go to the vacuum/car wash joint and get intimately acquainted. Heck, I've got almost 12 hundred tied up in her. She better be nice to me!
|
|
-
|
|
|
Along with whats posted above I would add for you to check for spark and fuel-pull one of the plugs and hook the coil pack up and test for spark-also do the plugs look wet-they should look almost soaked with as much cranking going on as your mentioning.
Poolman
|
|
|
|
|
