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Had a flat right rear tire today and didn't even know about it. Cruised on the freeway for 5 miles at 80MPH (speed of traffic). Then drove twisty back roads for another 5 miles at 60MPH. Not a single hint of trouble, car handled perfectly.
When we got home and got out of the car my wife mentioned that she smelled burning rubber. Found the RR tire was completely flat with a nail in it. It was hot enough that I had to wear gloves to get the wheel off.
Wheels on this car are 16 inch Hydras, rubber is Yokohama 205x50x16W ES100s. Believe it or not, the tire survived and could be patched. Had the shop pull it off the rim to inspect the inner walls, all was good.
What points am I trying to make here:
1: At least with a rear flat, you will not feel it.
2: If you can't feel it, you are at risk of either destroying the tire/rim, or heaven forbid get in a wreck.
Based on this, I am considering adding a tire pressure monitoring system, has anyone else done this, perhaps the system from IPD? Thoughts?
jorrell
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92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces
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Do you live and drive down dirt roads?
When I upgraded my Grand Am from 14 to 16 rim I felt EVERYTHING they treaded over!!! When I've ever had a flat (any vehicle) I ALWAYS detected it thru the steering characteristics - If I ever have to turn excessively or, most noticeably, during straight travel, the steering wheel must be at a new angle/azimuth to maintain a line, TIME TO PULL OVER AND DO A MIDFLIGHT WALK AROUND! Something has changed - grab the tie rods - look for bulges in tires - Especially in your situation whereas you've pressumed to have a flat in the same location of another flat that resulted in a horrific accident.
$0.04 more
Tim
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Tim:
Well, no, sorry, don't live on a dirt or gravel road, we actually have standard pavement and concrete that lead to our home. I felt qty. 0 change in the straight steering wheel position, perhaps this has something to do with the 25mm rear sway bar as it would have transferred vehicle weight to the left rear.
I have a bit of experience (a little) in the handling of cars through auto-X and road course racing. Granted, this gives me experience in worn/failing tires at the edge of performance, but dang, I didn't sense squat about this problem in a 50% load scenario. The tire was flat, by some miracle, it stayed on the rim (probably good glue). When I jacked up the car and removed the wheel, it was so flat that it sucked air in.
I didn't feel it and that scares the crap out of me. Think about it.
jorrell
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92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces
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Hi John,
Made curious by your IPD reference, I found this 5-year old gummint doc on tire pressure monitoring systems and I swear one of them they tested looks a lot like the one in IPD's catalog, and another like a $99 "gen 1" version I saw on a tire site. Interesting 136 pages though - and a lot more within reach than I had thought.
How much time has passed since the Wilderness AT blowout debacle?
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/capubs/tpms.pdf
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
The cost of raising a medium-size dog to the age of eleven: $6,400
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Art:
Your link and words hit like steel. I recall the Wilderness AT debacle and even had the unfortunate opportunity to help a gal in Knoxville that flipped her Explorer twice after grenading a tire. She was hurt bad and I spent 15 minutes holding her head still until the ambulance arrived. She survived, but is now a paraplegic. A certain Company came after me following the accident to try and blame me for her injury... fortunately, the Judge told them to go to hell and open their wallets.
The funny part of this whole story is that I worked on a project 15 years ago that resulted in answers that said 60% underinflated tires would look identical to a full tire as seen by ABS systems. Think about it, the outside diameter of the tire doesn't change when it is low on pressure, the side walls wrinkle, thats about it. To show up as a "flat" to the ABS sensors, the tread has to be wrinkled and trapped by the rim. The ultimate result was a software loaded system that measured the distance between the axle and road at all four corners. Sounds great, but was not reliably achievable. Back then of course, measuring tire pressure in each wheel and transmitting it to a car based receiver was expensive and had serious mechanical issues. Lets not forget the the mid to late 90s Vettes where the TPMS sensor straps would break on the rim and then chew the hell out of the inside of the tire until it blew without warning.
Believe it or not, individual tire pressure monitoring and detection has become so good that the US Government is in the final throes of making it mandatory by 2010 or 2011 for new cars. I don't feel this is appropriate, but it does speak loudly to the technology and the special interest groups (automotive manufactures and insurers).
It seems that there are a lot of ways to "skin this patent cat", but for once price will win. In 2010, TPMS should cost $10 a wheel and $40 a car. Once in full production, that cost will be cut in half.
jorrell
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92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces
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What does 16 inch rims have to do with it?
You have a very tough 50 series tire; that's the point!
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mduck:
Yes, I am impressed that the tire held up but it didn't have much longer left. One part I left out was that back in 02, my wife had a near lethal crash (six month recovery) in an 89 244 with standard 14 inch steelies. The accident was caused by the right rear tire blowing out after running over a chunk of steel.
The scary part was that we drove through the same curve today with a flat right rear tire. When we got home and saw the flat, both of us almost puked. Needless to say, I am pleased that we didn't crash due to near identical circumstances. The main difference, is that the lower profile tire remained stuck to the rim rather than folding like the 14 inch tire did.
Take it for what its worth.
jorrell
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92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces
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In most cars, a flat rear tire can quickly become a very hazardous situation. The rear of the car can slew around, and natural steering attempts to correct it can quickly become the situation of an out-of-control pendulum.
The car gets more and more out-of-control until all tires break traction and it spins or goes off the road. Obviously at highway speeds this is disastrous.
The simple solution is proper tire care and regular inflation checks. Road hazards that can destroy a tire are out there all the time however. Maintaining a suitable following distance to avoid objects in the road, coupled with proper lighting for safe night driving, are about the only things you can do to prevent such an accidental destruction of a tire.
I've picked up plenty of nails, and been lucky enough to not lose more than one tire to road hazard damage in over 20 years of driving. I've seen quite a few chewed up tires, and I know that most of them are simply a matter of neglect. I see people where I live, regularly getting onto highway ramps, about to go drive 70 mph with a nearly flat tire. I try to warn people when I can, but for the most part it's impossible to stop people even for their own good.
It's clear with many of the cars I see that people DO NOT ever look at their tires even when there is an obvious problem. FOr whatever reason, I always find myself looking at tires and wheels, and I tend to spot trouble before it gets worse. I find tires with nails and screws in them all the time; recently I mounted a set of tires for a neighbor when she bought a car from me, and 3 of her 4 "new" tires had nails in them. All held air and didn't seem to present an immediate hazard, so what should you do in that situation?
The point is, you should do everything you can to inspect your tires, check their pressure regularly, and replace tires with serious wear, sidewall cuts, any out-of-roundness, or flat spots. Even if it seems expensive, it's definitely cheap insurance- much better than the consequences of any accident, no matter how minor.
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::: Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: 92 244 M47 211K ::: 90 745GL M47 273K ::: 88 245DL AW70 190K ::: 84 242DL Project ::: 70 VW Bus ::: 70 VW Pickup Project ::: 71 VW Notchback :::
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Rob:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Attention to tire inflation and wear is critical. Here in NC, folks don't seem to think about it until they fail annual safety inspections due to bald/worn out tires.
In the 2002 incident, the tires had less than 2K on them, Michelin all four corners. Today, the tires had roughly 8K on them with 90% tread left. I check tire pressures every two weeks unless a tire looks low/odd.
I have almost convinced myself that active tire pressure monitoring is a safety critical system. I'll sleep on it and see what I think in the morning.
When it comes to my Wife's crash, TPM may not have helped as it was spontaneous, but from a financial aspect, if it could have prevented the accident, we would be $200K richer and my Wife would not have had to go through six months of agony.
Think I know what my decision will be. Any guesses?
jorrell
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92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently in pieces
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Unbelievable! Somebody IS watching out for you.
Inspect the sidewalls for signs of disbelting,feel them also.
Darn contractors and their nail flinging pickups anyway.
Thanks for the heads up.
Ken
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White 86-245 DL, M 46, IPD bars & Wagon Overloads,Commando Bumpers,SS Belly Pan & Air Pickup,Straight-Shot EMT Chassis & Tower Braces,Scorpius Alloys,2 Belt No AC Conversion,Black POR-15 No Glare Front End
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