Anybody ever heard of this car?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190099822058#description

Since this thread is on historic 544 race and rally cars, here's a tough question: I've got a set of the FIA papers for the 444/544 which shows that the cars were homologated for four wheel disc brakes. Anyone know where the rear discs came from on the homologation specials? The 1800s didn't have rear discs until 1970 or so. I have a very long term plan to make one of my 544s into a vintage racer, and could get rear discs passed the eligibility people if I knew which were the right ones.

I have four wheels discs on my PV race car and might be able to help you. Best e-mail is jhamilton@corridorllc.com

I have a copy of those papers and don't think the 4 wheel disc's are for real, you will notice that the photo's only show drum brakes. My papers are four the C model, the story I would ( will ) be telling race organisers is that the 140 started development in june 1960 ( true ) if your name was Gunnar Anderson you COULD have raided the parts bins and put the dics on the 544 ( true ) and that some cars left the factory that way ( well who knows?) however it's not really worth it, the 140 axle is a lot heavier than the 544's modern race brake linings will give you more than enough braking on the rear at speeds faster than any circuit B20 Volvo will run at. Better to stick with the 120 fronts and modify the rear axles and keep the car legal.

No it doesn't, it refers to caliper I know, but that's actually a bad translation. If you follow through the part number on that homologation paper you'll find its the part number for the 120 series estate (wagon) rear wheel cylinder.

Hello All:
Ive read all the discussion on the Safari Volvo and how the instrument cluster was added around 2003. My interest is in the instrument cluster/panel. Does anyone know a current source for the panel and/or instruments?

Thanks.
Bob

Hi Bob
I'm the one that wrote what I think is the story about this safari PV. I spoke to the third owner and he told me that he got the instruments. He handed it over to the new owner when he sold the car. He said that the type/manufacturer was "Jäger". If you want more info I can give you his name and phonenumber. I dont think I will put his name in here. (Have not asked him if that is ok.)

Dag

More commonly spelled "Jaeger", a French and/or Swiss company (possibly related to Le Coultre of wristwatch fame) these instruments are found in some Alfa Romeos and other older European cars. While attractive in appearance, they don't have the best reputation for reliability. If I were trying to replicate this cluster, I would use VDO, though a set of Smiths from an older P1800 might seem a more logical choice, as they are already set up to work with a B18, an M40 or M41 gearbox, and a 4.10:1 rear axle. Fabricating the mounting plate should be pretty straightforward---heavy gauge aluminum painted wrinkle finish black. The finishing touch, if you can find them, are the warning lights from a Saab 96, which have the right look, and were available in red, yellow, green and blue.

Many moons ago when I was in high school and had a tired old 122 (bought for $450) I found a rusted to death 142E in a junkyard and gradually put much of that car into my 122. Radiator, motor, trans, driveshaft, seats, rear axle, gas tank (got rid of that perenially leaking goose neck filler that 122 tanks always get!). And the 142E had a 'rally' gauge cluster in it, which looked similar to the gauges in the PV. Large round tach and speedo, several other small round gauges, warning lights. This was a rectangular unit designed to fit into a 140 dash, but I was able to fit it into the 122 by trimming and rounding the upper corners off. It wasn't an absolutely perfect fit, but close enough to not look out of place. Took a minor bit of wiring harness surgery to make it fit, and the gas tank sender and engine sensors of the later model car.
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'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic 245 + turbo

Bob, if you read my posting on this thread - at the bottom, my Swedish friend had an explanation. As we all suspected, this PV is a good replica restoration of a famous and rare PV. If you check out the URL to his more complete set of photos, then you can in fact see that it was a very thorough job.
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Cam a.k.a. CVOLVO.COM

This car looks like a nice 544 with an upgrade on the instruments, custom steering wheel, nice paint, and driving lights. Under the hood looks good, but pretty much factory.
Mine looks about the same, and I listed it last year on another site and received 3 offers to buy with request to ship and accept a cashiers check PLUS the cost of shipping. Language in all three offers was definitly from someone not very good with the english language. I would REALLY advise Buyer Beware!!!
I speak from experience-scammed out of $2400 by Volvowerks IN California a couple of years back. However, I wasn't the only one, and the D.A. in San Jose finally put those folks in jail.
Remember the old saying "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is".

Nice looking car, but no evidence the "Safari" business is for real. The steeering wheel appears to be a Moto-Lita, which could possibly be period but looks a decade or more newer to me. Not sure about the gauges, except that they do not appear to be VDO---look more like Smiths. The apartment building the car is in front of is not in America, but doesn't look all that much like Sweden either. If it is Sweden, the 78-89 type full size Bronco is not that unlikely. American cars, especially full size sedans and 4X4s, have a considerable enthusiast following over there, despite never having been officially imported. In the picture showing the back seat area of the PV, another car is visible through the back window. It appears to be small and sporty, with a wide European-size front plate. It may be that the pictures were taken (in Spain or Italy ?) on a road trip in 2005.

Many years ago, in Reston VA, I saw this car's twin. It was for sale at a place called Reston Volvo Service. I believe the price was $2000 (about 20 years ago) It was a shiny red PV, lowered, with wider than normal wheels. Fresh off the boat from Sweden, It was alleged to have a 200hp B18. I don't remember much about the interior, except that the seats were not original. (I think they were black) It was way beyond my means at the time (I had gone there to look at a rusted to death $300 122) so I have no idea what became of it.

I just emailed the seller and asked for the I.D. Plate information. If he sends it that may help identify it. All things aside, its a pretty great looking car!
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Thanks!!

I am not a vintage Volvo expert by any means, but a careful examination of the listing and its pictures reveal some contradictions:
1) The auction is supposed to be in Sweden -- all the vegetation in the pictures is quite green
2) The dates on the photos are 2005
3) In the background of one picture, there is a full size Ford Bronco.
My thought is bidder beware....

Hhmmmmmmm verrrry interesting.

I've never heard of a 544 Safari.

The seller states "this car is more like a rally car volvo Design this car models for Tom Trana" which seems highly improbable, given Trana's Volvo fame was for the RAC rally, whereas the famous Safari Rally win was scored by Joginder Singh in a car that had been crashed as a works car the previous year in Kenya.

Its only natural that a Swede would desribe the car as a Tom Trana type model, Tom Trana being a swede and winner of numerous european rallies and touring car races in Volvo's, this car looks period, I have seen 1963 photo's of Volvo's with dashboards like that ( aftermarket )
Is this a special factory model? I don't think so, best case is it's one of a number of dealer prepared cars using Volvo Competition Service parts and a special dash (in 1966 a way of moving old stock). It looks like a lovely car though but worth nothing more than any other nice PV

Sure, but presumably the factory would have got it right at the time if, as is being claimed, it's a factory original special Safari model! The car Joginder and Jaswant Singh used to win the East African Safari Rally in 1965 was a 1964 model, left behind in Kenya in 1964 after being badly damaged by the afore mentioned Tom Trana. The famous Trana PV win was much earlier, he won the RAC rally in 1963.

You have a Zero rated seller, a high bidder who's been an Ebay member for a week, a car that is claimed to be a special model where the basic historical context is incorrect, Oh and suddenly PV's were magically being produced in 1966 when we all know that the last one rolled off the production line at 15.00 on the 20th of October 1965!

The car looks nice enough, as to the claimed historical importance.....

Volvo World (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vlvworld.com/544/photo/544ROW.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.vlvworld.com/544/Production.htm&h=240&w=320&sz=16&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=sIB7RIDAuEjwTM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1966%2Bvolvo%2B544%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG claims that 3400 544s (production code G) were desgnated as 1966. Since the Type code stamped on the production I.D. Plate for the car in question is 11234 G it would seem that his claim that it is a 1966 is valid, (if the I.D. namplate is legitimate). The reason I say that is that the name plate is blank where the Chassis Number should go which is suspiscious, unless its not a production chassis, and may be a "special" version. I have a photo of the plate if you'd like to see it.
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Thanks!!

Hi, talking about cars as model years is an American peculiarity, they tend to be referred to in Europe by the actual year of production. F was 1964-65 with numbers 419300 to 436599, G is 65 with numbers 436600 to 440000 The last one, 440000, was the one which rolled off the production line in '65 I referred to earlier, it is a Black 544 Sport and is in the Volvo museum.

You can email me on volvo_pete@(delete/spam)hotmail.co.uk

Delete (delete/spam)

Pete

I understand what your saying. Since the car isn't registered in the U.S., I'm assuming in Sweden, I wonder how it's justified as being called a '66?
Mine is an F (11244F, ch nr: 436281) but my registration says its a '66. "A rose by any other name...", I suppose.
His is a Beautiful car, but a suspicious pedigree.
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Thanks!!

Absolutely, in itself there is nothing particularly sinister about finding a PV registered in 1966, production stopped Oct 65 so some will have taken until 1966 to get road registered.

The issue here is not whether or not its a nice looking car, it is. However the claims of it being something special made by the factory the way it looks today seem rather dubious.

The only factory thing referred to as "Safari" from the factory are the safari bolts that were available to allow you to fit twin shocks on the front.

He replied to one question as to its origination thusly:

"Q: Why are you calling this car a Rallye Safari as there never has been such a name for any PV produced by Volvo? No Volvo history book indicate such a special serie. More over the car running in 1965 in the Safari Rally were quite diffrent from what we can see on the picture. Can you explain? Tks Apr-08-07
A: hi this cars was made in jannessons metal worksshop in torslanda and they only made this special car it was what the custumer order it was a copy what Tom Trana drive in. little bit what shelby is for you, this is what they made for us . And they only made four of this car, that´s why this car is so unknown but if you like, you can call volvo club in sweden they know what this is and that is why i´m not selling it cheap you see this car once in a life time. I know i´m never going to renovate one more of this car in my life . of course if i find the fourth one i´m going to try to BUY IT but i know i never gonna see the fourth car nobody know´s where this car is . What we know is that some one crash the car i hope that you understand what i just wrote about if you have more questions just ask then i will do my best to answer them friendly regards kim
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'61 PV544 - '65 PV544 - '64 Lincoln Continental

So its much as we surmised, its just another standard PV which got modified at some point in its life. Nice looking car, but its not worth any great price premium, it may even reduce its value as mods tend to reduce the number of potential buyers.

Here is some infromation from someone close to the car. He sent a picture of the engine compartment and if you magnify it you can read the chasssis number, it is 438638 just as he stated.

I'm writing to you because I have seen that you are interrested in the "volvo pv 544 rally safari sport" listet on Ebay.com right now. I found your mail among the questions and answers.

I am also a Volvo enthusiast. Her are som om my cars: http://darak.no/PV/

I dont know the seller but I have read what he has written about his Volvo. I, and others, have asked for the V.I.N. without any luck. - that makes me suspicious.

On one of his pictures, shown here: http://new.photos.yahoo.com/kimhusemann/album/576460762396892466 , it is possible to read the V.I.N. and the number is: 438638.

Some years ago I tried to find a red PV-sport and I wrote letters to all owners listed in the "Sweedish PV-matrikkel". One of the cars that is listet has the same V.I.N. - The same car.

Now I have spoked to a previous owner and he gives me interresting information that tells me that the seller is not telling the true story.
I have asked him a question under the "question and answers" on ebay but I am afraid he deleates it.

Owner 3 says:
- The car is fully restored more than one time and has at least 5 owners
- The first byer ordered the car with som Sport - equipment, but he canceled the trade. The car was handed ower to a carstory and was after some time sold to a policemen in Dalarna i n sweeden.
- He changed the transmission from 4 to 5.
- The car was not delivered with the instruments we see on the pictures, those Instruments are installed in the car by the fourth owner in 2003-2004.
- The Car was not delivered with black inner roof.
- The second owner repainted the car in another color.
- The second owner also replaced the original seats.
- The third owner says that there is no written documentation that verifies what the seller says about the "Tom Trana look alike".
- The Third owner had the color back to red but the painting was not successful,
- The third owner had the car from 1996 to about 2003(4) and sold the car almost restaured, but in parts.
- The fourth owner made a big job on the car and painted the red color once again. He also installed the revolution counter and the instruments. As far as I know no cars were originally sold with those instruments. They are accessories and the type is Jäger. (not volvo)
- The car has gone at least 160000 km, probably much more.
Here is an email from someone close to the car. What he has to say is pretty enlightning. By the way he sent a photo of the engine compartment and if you magnify thye arear of the ID Tag you can clearly see that it is


As far as I can see the seller is trying to make this car more special than it is. And remember: Owner no 3 says that the car has driven at least 160000 km. In spite of this there is no doubt that this is a very nice and special PV Sport. and it is one of the 1500 last PV's ever made.

The only reason that I tell this is that I feel screwed. We are not given all facts and we are not given the right facts.
We that have feelings fore old cars must trust the information we are given. That is not what happends in this case.

I can not reach all the interresting people around the world, but if you know someone that have given bids, please let them know. Maybe I give a bid to, I dont know right know.

Good luck

kind regads
Dag


Later he wrote:
Thanks for answering.
Yes share the information. I think it is important that bidders know what kind of car this is and what kind of seller we deal with.

Attached you find the picture. Take it into photoshop and zoom in.
The number is a little difficult to see, but I am shure I've got i right. The information that I got confirms that it is the same car.
Expecially info about instruments. Third owner confims that he had the instrument and handed the instruments over to the next owner that installed them with some difficulties.

There is just about 1 day and 15 hours until Kim Husemann ends the auction. Are there any other things we can do to inform the people ?

Please give me the url to the brickboard.

thanks

rgds- Dag


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'61 PV544 - '65 PV544 - '64 Lincoln Continental

I got a reply from the seller. He sent a photo of the ID tag. The tag is pristine an lists the Type as 11234G (544,B18D low compression,export,m40 4 spd trans)
The chassis number is blank
the colotr code is 46
the interior code is 53-511
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Thanks!!

Hello Jan and all fellow PV owners.

I am also somewhat skeptical about the authenticity of this PV. I decided to check with my very knowleadgeable Swedish friend, to see if such a PV ever existed. I spoke with Mats yesterday and he's likewise puzzled by this owner's claims to its fame. He does seem to recall that Volvo did offer a rally instrument cluster and what was called the Safari crossmember with 4 shocks. I think (read below) these were inspired by the Singh brothers African Safari Rally win and Volvo used it as a marketing ploy to help sell the aging PV. Here's what friend Mats wrote:

"Hej Cam:

The guy's answers to the questions make me wonder a bit to be honest. Ok, bad in spelling and language is one thing but he keeps on talking of the Volvo restoration like it was the most important thing. I kind of feel there is a fox buried here somewhere Cam. He might have found papers, or bought them and then took an "ordinary" PV and replaced the chassis plate. Too much of that here in Sweden and especially on Sport models and other rare vehicles. Papers can be found rather easy or an extremely badly rusty car can have papers and then they switch identification.

One more thing is the 5.5 inch rims. Volvo never allowed these rims as a accessory detail. The so called "real ones" were made by KPZ and were sold in car part stores for 50.00 SEK for a while. Not original Volvo that is. The Safari crossmember did exist and was sold separately by Volvo.

It is a nice looking car though but I would be careful and must see it with my own eyes before paying up to 10,000 USD or what ever the price stops at.
I doubt a used PV is worth more than $10,000 and never mind it is a so called safari model. OK, very low miles and not driven for several years. Then maybe but this one is more than 100 miles. 100 miles since the restoration yes but before that?

One question from me to you. Can a restored car be in MINT condition?Well........The difference from a standard PV is more or less the twin carburetors, reinforced crossmember, some gauges, steering wheel? Well even here...did Volvo provide accessory steering wheels in the sixties?
Compare with the Rally PV in their museum. The Singh car you know. Who built that one? Are all the parts made by Volvo? Doubt that. Anyone can add some extra parts to make it look like something else. Many questions and I might be wrong but better to be suspicious than overpay for a fake "safari PV".

Keep bombarding the guy with questions!"

My Internet search of PV and "Safari" indicates the original rally PV544 was in fact a 1958 (Swedish year of manufacture) with what looks like a 1957 PV444 grill.

I also did a seach on the web and found some interesting facts about the East African Safari Rally that may somewhat debunk the eBay seller's claims. The entire link is:


http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/sports/EAS&Joginder/easafari&joginder.htm