|
|
|
Why do redbricks last so long? Thank you
|
|
-
|
|
|
I will post the comments of our local machine shop maestro. Our B230F block was the first one he had ever dealt with... perfect results by the way!
When I asked him what he thought of the block, at first he snickered and then said: "look, it reminds me of an early 40's John Deere tractor block... over-built, over heavy and bullet proof!" Additional comments included things like you should be able to get 250HP out of the block, slugs, rods, and crank without taking away life. It is an overbuilt tank engine!
Keep in mind folks that the purpose of a "tractor engine" is to produce torque (think twist). The machine shop I used does "normal" engine machining rebuilds, but they also do a few V8 specials that put Roush engines to shame, they have also caught the "overflow" from semi-local Nascar engine builders.
The red block is solid, overbuilt, ancient in design, but heck it's almost bullet proof!
jorrell
--
92 245 245K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!
|
|
-
|
|
|
'cause they are made of bricks...
|
|
-
|
|
|
High nickel content of Swedish steel.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be George
on
Thu Jun 21 17:24 CST 2007 [ RELATED]
|
|
I don't know, I think that the B21/23/230F motors are very well made, but their longevity does not seem all that unusual to me. GM made some great V-8 engines in the 60's and 70's that racked up "Volvo" mileage and then some. Most Japanese V-6 engines will do 200,000 miles easy.
On the other hand, if you are comparing to a late model American V-6, then the Volvo red block is superior by a long shot.
Put it this way, to be fair: Volvo was ahead of the curve in safety and longevity 25 years ago. But today, the Japanese are making 3L V6 motors that produce north of 200 hp (naturally aspirated), return high 20's fuel mileage on the highway, and run for 250,000 miles with very little maintenance. The Civic and Accord are also, IIRC, awarded 5-stars by the IIHS in frontal and side impact tests.
Only reason I don't buy one? They are boring and drive more like appliances than 'real' cars.
Viva la Volvo. :-)
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yeah good blocks help. I always say the cars are made to be fixed. If you had a good block on an otherwise POS, hard to maintain car, there would be few around, like SAABS
This resource also helps make it economical to keep many on the road
|
|
-
|
|
|
volvo's of yore were built for safety. they wanted the owners to survive accidents with as many parts still working as possible.
to accomplish this single goal they had to have superior design backed up with higher quality manufacturing to implement this vision.
i think fuel economy and bland performance was secondary to the idea that volvo drivers should survive crashes.
in complex vehicle manufacturing invariably a safer design and durability amount to facets of the same coin.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Al
on
Thu Jun 21 11:58 CST 2007 [ RELATED]
|
|
Volvo uses a high nickel block to start with. They build the engine for durability not power or fuel economy. That means using high quality parts instead of listening to the bean counters.
|
|
-
|
|
I remember reading that along with time tested steel fabrication and machining they used the Turbo model as a platform to design a better working NA engine - makes sense when I recall they used the same parts from the turbo block on the NA block even after the turbo was axed in 85 --- from that point on till the mid 90's they discovered how to fine tune the NA to what we appreciate most about them: TOUGH
Tim
|
|
-
|
|
Apparently over-engineered, in the best meaning of the word. I've long suspected superior steel in the red block motor; thanks Al for giving some detail on that. I read that Volvo was originally a bearing manufacturer. So they would know more than a little bit about those also.
The NA version of the red block is only about 115 HP but those who add a turbo to a stock NA can go to 200 or maybe even 250 hp without changing internal engine components. Maybe add the sodium filled valves from the turbo system, however I'm pretty sure you can even get away without that. All this to show that the block and head and cooling system are not designed to just barely meet their requirements - but far beyond.
--
Sven: '89 245 NA, 951 ECU, open-front airbox, E-fan, 205/65-15's, IPD sways, E-Codes, amber front corner reflectors, quad horns, tach, small clock. Wifemobile '89 245 NA stock. 90 244 NA spare, runs.
|
|
-
|
|
|
I've often suspected superior metallurgy. Scandinavians have been working with steel for a long long time. I liken it to their knife blades: simple, unassuming, and they can still hold their own against the high-tech steels coming from the USA and Japan.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Also: Thicker castings than other 4-cyl engines; large surface area on main crankshaft bearings. I read somewhere that this block was originally designed for a farm tractor.
Volvo and Swedish bearing mfgr SKF were originally the same company.
(But the SKF strut mounts I just bought have bearings made in Korea!)
|
|
-
|
|
|
I read the same thing but I believe I've also read that it's a looong stretch to say that. However if you read the evolution of the redblock I think you can trace it's primitive ancestry back to tractor engines.
If you think about the way the engine is better at making grunt torque than almost any other of it's size then you can easily compare it to a tractor engine.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Volvos, and especially their engines, are, like Rolls Royce, built "up to a standard, not down to a price"
My understanding is that the original B4 four cylinder (Volvo's first) in the earliest PV444s was derived from the 1089cc Fiat 508C engine of 1936. The Volvo engineers basically copied the best OHV 4 cylinder design out there at the time, enlarged it slightly (to 1400cc) and strengthened it considerably so that it would last indefinitely. I'm not familiar with either of these engines, but a B16 (evolved from the B4) does bear considerable resemblance to a Fiat 1100/103 (evolved from the 508C) of the late 50s and early 60s, though, of course, the Volvo is bigger and stronger.
Previous Volvo engines, all sixes, were derived from American practice (Plymouth and Pontiac come to mind)
The B18 was developed from half of a V8 that was intended for the stillborn "Philip" project (a big sedan that resembled a Kaiser---only one was ever built) of the mid 50s. It was a state of the art design for the time, with a short stroke, massive crankshaft (which remained unchanged when the extra four cylinders were lopped off) and a stiff lightweight block. This grew into the B20 a few years later. The OHC red blocks (B21, B23, B230) are a further modification of this rugged bottom end, again with Fiat influence. The system of inverted bucket tappets with large diameter adjustment shims running directly against the cam was developed by Fiat in the mid 60s, when they converted their OHV 124 engine (that looks a lot like a smaller B18 with an aluminum head) to DOHC. I believe Volvo actually took out a license to use parts of this design. The adjusting shims are identical and interchangeable between Volvo and Fiat. While adjusting valves is a bit of a hassle, this is probably the most trouble free design of cam and cam followers ever used on a production car. I've never seen anything go wrong with one, whatever the mileage.
Yes, the high quality cast iron used in the blocks is a factor in the longevity of these engines, which far surpasses that of most Japanese cars. Most Toyotas and Hondas are usually good for 250-300K (though I've known several people who had Toyota pickups with the 22RE, all of which needed a cam, rocker arms, a valve job, and a timing chain and sprockets before 200K, sometimes well before) given reasonable maintenance, but B230s can go way further than that. I know of one with 360K on it, all original and untouched. (never even had the valves adjusted) There was an 88 744 featured in Rolling (the Volvo club magazine) a few months ago. It had over 800K on the original engine, and the rest of the car looked like new. The only Japanese car I've seen that can come close was an OHV Subaru (early 80s) with over 600K on it, by which time the body was getting pretty rough around the edges.
Interesting trivia bit about Swedish steel: Over 90% of all musical strings are made of it, wherever they are manufactured.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Geez, heck of a history lesson. Thanks Bryan!
There must be some misinformation floating around the 'net because I actually remember reading a pseudo-history of the reblock that somehow traced it along a serpentine path back to a tractor engine.
In either case, like I said - the Scandinavians know their steel. I've seen it from a knifemaker's standpoint and now I'm seeing it in Volvo.
|
|
|
|
|
