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No start after setting timing and operator error 200

posted by richark on Sun Jul 15 04:31 CST 2007
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last visit: Mon Feb 7 06:55 CST 2011

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I replaced my timing belt yesterday and did a valve adjustment
after i replaced the timing belt the car started and ran great, si i commenced to check the ignition timing.

I am all knuckle-head when it comes to understanding electrical stuff, so i will do my best to explain.

i think i am using an inductive timing light but not sure, it has a lead to positive and negative and another wire with a spring to put in between the #1 plug wire and distributor cap. Ignition timing was already close at 12 deg BTDC. So i left it alone, however with the motor still running and the timing light hooked up i pulled the #1 wire from off the timing light spring, and HEARD SOME ARCING/CLICKING COMING FROM AREA OF COIL, the motor continued to run and i put the #1 plug wire back onto distibutor, motor continued to run. However, minutes later when I tried to start up it would not.

I replaced the coil with a new one and checked the spark plug wires and found them to have resistance: the needle on the meter went about half-way on the coil wire with meter set to K ohms or 1X ohms and the plug wires went about 3/4 of the way across the meter. I am going back out to check the amount and consult with Bentley book. I only moments ago discovered that plug wires need resistance to block radio intereference, so I'm no electrical engineer.

I checked all of the fuses, including the engine bay fuse by the coil. The wires at the coil all have 100% continuity and measure same voltage as battery with ignition set to on. I have located a vendor with new plug wires in stock 30 minutes away for $57. I will consult Bentley for troubleshooting, but I really am all thumbs.

A phone conversation with one of you would be most excellent.
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rich - 85 244 286k

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No start after setting timing and operator error 200

posted by ODGuru on Sun Jul 15 06:32 CST 2007
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last visit: Sat Oct 4 18:52 CST 2014

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One thing that could have happend is you just fried the Hall sensor inside the distributor.

This would apply to all electronic ignition systems up to 1988 when I think they went to a crank sensor instead of using the distributor to tell the ECU the engine was running.

Hook the timing light to the coil to distrubutor wire. Crank the engine while holding the timing light's on trigger. If the light triggers, you have spark.

If no spark, verify the Hall sensor according to the test in Bentley, 280-9.

Duane

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No start after setting timing and operator error 200

posted by david hunter on Sun Jul 15 05:12 CST 2007
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last visit: Mon Jun 30 22:10 CST 2014

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Congratulations on your efforts so far, seems you have applied your knowledge well.
At this point I would not change plug wires, they do not all fail all of a sudden but rather deteriorate over a long period of time. If they worked last week, they work this week.
Start with basic stuff:
Check to make sure you have all the plug wires in the correct original positions for correct firing order.
Make sure the timing belt has not slipped off (just have a look through the oil filler cap while someone cranks the starter).
Next check to make sure you have spark at the plugs while cranking.

If yes to the above then perhaps your timing belt has slipped maybe from incorrect tensioner setting? Post back!
--
David Hunter

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No start after setting timing and operator error 200

posted by richark on Sun Jul 15 05:43 CST 2007
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last visit: Mon Feb 7 06:55 CST 2011

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still no start
i went through ignition system test procedures outlined with Bentley and all seemed to show proper function - except inability to check knock sensor
i tested the plug wires
all wires from plugs to distributor measure 3.8-4.2(with multi-meter set to 20K ohms)
however, the wire from coil to distributor measures resistance at 13.4 ohms
are these measurement, then in thousands of ohms since meter sensitivity is set to 20K?
CAVEAT - these wires have at least 180K miles and 8 years on them (7mm bosch)
and the coil wire has a rubbed thin area where it was touching cold start valve vacuum hose
NOTE - recall that when i was running the car and pulled the timing light connections off there was a clicky arcing type of sound from the coil area - with restsance measurements like i got from coil wire is it possible the coil wire is bad enough to cause a no start?

i did run the car for about 2 minutes after i changed the t-belt and the valves before i checked the timing and did a tensioner adjustment for good measure so i am pretty sure the t belt is good and not jumped

the throttle position sensor did not click when throttle was moved so i adjusted it to when i just budge the throttle it goes "click"
--
rich - 85 244 286k

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No start after setting timing and operator error 200

posted by david hunter on Sun Jul 15 06:14 CST 2007
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last visit: Mon Jun 30 22:10 CST 2014

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I cannot respond to your question about resistance measurements as I never ever had do that. I have only replaced wires when they looked old and ratty. Have never seen wires fail to the point where there was a no start. You should understand that all your wires do not suddenly and catastrophically fail at once. They are almost certainly OK or at least good enough to run the engine. Replacing wires is tune up thing and not a likely fix for a no start when the car ran beforehand.

What was the original problem before you changed the belt and adjusted valves.

Do you have spark at the plugs? That is the first diagnostic test for a no start. If yes then go back to what you worked on....the timing belt, it may have slipped when you shut down or when you tried to restart.
--
David Hunter

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SOME SUCCESS, but still have questions 200

posted by richark on Sun Jul 15 06:29 CST 2007
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last visit: Mon Feb 7 06:55 CST 2011

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when i went to double check the timing belt and was bumping the key to move engine to cam timing mark it started up!

recall, when i was trying to start with plug removed i was getting very thin spark until i turned key from III (start) to II (on)and then i would get a much stronger arc
when bumping the engine i was getting many repeated III to II strong arcs, when it finally started, and it responds fine - the timing looks correct judging by eyeballing the cam and balancer marks with cam on mark, haven't put light on it for exactitude, though

when it was running i jiggled with the coil wire, slight pulls on the wire at the boot (wire is of style where boot can slide up and away from the connector)caused slight slowdown in engine - putting coil wire back on ohmmeter showed that when i apoplied similar pressure to wire atr connectors the resistance changed from 13.33 K ohms to 13.90 K ohms - while all plug wires still measure about 4 K ohms - sounds logical to me that the coil wire alone is the bad guy in the picture
--
rich - 85 244 286k

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and i also saw this 200

posted by richark on Sun Jul 15 04:40 CST 2007
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last visit: Mon Feb 7 06:55 CST 2011

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when i pull #1 plug wire off plug and short it to engine it arcs a thin barely visible arc until the turn off the key. At the moment i turn off the key it arcs much thicker and brighter
--
rich - 85 244 286k

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