A spare M40 was picked up in beautiful Glen Rock, PA from a most accomodating Mr. Morris. Thanky Jim.

Before getting all close and personal with the underside of the car again I thought it might be prudent to post the symptoms that drove me 150 miles northeast in search of a tranny.

A couple of months ago grinding of gears started to occur when shifting into reverse. All other gear shifting was fine. Clutch slave rod was adjusted with no improvement. Later I discovered that shifting into reverse was not an issue when the tranny was cold -- it only had a grinding problem after warming up.

About three weeks ago the grinding started to occur when downshifing into 2nd gear. Upshifting was fine in all gears. Again, when cold there were no gear shifting problems. Adjustment was let out as far as possible at the master cylinder push rod behind the clutch pedal with no improvement.

Shortly thereafter, downshifting into 3rd became an issue. Also quickly upshifting into 2nd started to get balky. Tranny fluid was changed with no improvement.

Last week I noticed that if the gear selector was shifted into 4th before downshifting into 3rd or 2nd, then there was no resistance to gear selection or grinding. This worked for a few days but today it was hard to shift into 1st from a dead stop. Upshifting still is rarely an issue.

My question is whether or not this might actually be a hydraulic problem. What is confounding me is the fact that the tranny downshifts fine by going into 4th before selecting any other gear. In fact, on the way home tonight I had to shift into 4th or 3rd when at a stop before it would go into 1st.

Thanks for reading all this blather. Any thoughts on what to check before pulling the gearbox are welcome. One dumb question. If only the tranny is being replaced and not the clutch, does the bellhousing have to come off?

Thanks much,

Joe M in WV

Over the years I've had 5 122s and all the standards, w/o exception, had to be shifted into first, THEN reverse, to keep it from grinding.

Joe,
actually, it was "beautiful Jefferson, PA" but if you're not here it really is no difference, ha!

And you're welcome. Sorry the garage was such a mess, but people really need to buy all this 140 stuff from me before I buy a 140 and want to keep it all, and have to build another shed.

Any thoughts on what to check before pulling the gearbox are welcome. One dumb question. If only the tranny is being replaced and not the clutch, does the bellhousing have to come off?

Well, it really should. You would be foolish not to check the rear main seal (or upgrade to rubber), and thuroughly inspect the clutch components if you're going to all the trouble. Once the transmission is off, it's not that much extra work. It could be the clutch is hanging because it has become saturated with oil or has suffered a failure of some other type.


This inspection is really going to tell you a lot. Looking over the shifting linkage will tell a lot, too.

You're probably going to have to pull the tranny in any case so I propose a
simple test:
Drop the drive shaft. Put the car in gear. Have someone step on the clutch
and you try to turn the rear flange of the tranny. If it doesn't turn easily
both ways your clutch is draggin'. Draggin' clutch = problematic shifting.
(Especially where gear speeds are not intentionally synchronized.)
--
George Downs, Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!

Duh... good thought there.

But, easier.. jack up one rear tire, put in gear, have assistant step on clutch, try to turn the raised tire (assuming no limited slip)

Cheers...

--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

I agree with the others that it sounds like a clutch issue... Adjustment first, hydraulics second, internal stuff third.

Soooo... if you can't get it fixed with proper adjustment, then you have to pull the tranny.

Of course, you can pull the tranny separate from the bell housing, but.. you need to look at the clutch, so pull the tranny and bellhousing together.

If you've got a broken spring on the pressure plate, that should be obvious. It could also be an issue with the throwout arm or fork, so be sure to check that for wear, bending, cracks.. all of the above... Throw out bearing could maybe be the cause, but I expect you'd hear that.

again though.. adjustment first. Hydraulics second. Internal clutch parts third. Transmission fourth.

--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂

I hadn't been suspecting the clutch because both it and pressure plate were replaced about a year ago. No 3500 rpm clutch drops while I've been driving so it should have lasted longer than this.

There has been a bearing noise during low rpm accelleration ever since the new clutch was installed. I got lazy and took it to a "pro" for installation. The bearing noise sounds just like the typical rattle on accelleration in an air cooled VW.

I'll try the clutch check tomorrow and post results.

Thanks again,

Joe M in WV

Joe;

Grinding gears when shifting into reverse is a symptom of inadequite throw-out...that is, disconnecting of the engine turning one way, from the (unsynchronized) reverse gear turning the other...the fact that this is now manifesting itself in other gears also points to this...the fact that it occurs later just means that the synchros in those gears have been working a bit harder and actually doing exactly what they're supposed to...

...the bottom line to all of my explanation is that it STILL sounds like inadequite throw-out to me...why don't you have a helper depress the clutch pedal fully, and you measure just how much the throw-out fork is moved...from memory, it should be about 1 1/2" (maybe someone can chime in with an actual measurement).

In any case, having an extra M40 on hand never broke anyone, and bell housing does not need to come of when only replacing trans...just pull it out...spline shaft engages clutch hub.

Good Hunting

I would suspect clutch issues given your symptoms.
Sounds like it is not releasing fully.
My guesses, worn clutch, broken clutch springs, slave cylinder not holding pressure.

Check for a cracked clutch fork. This is a commom problem on early 140s. I don't think the 122 uses the same style fork, but there is still the chance that it could be failing. I've had it happen.

You don't have to remove the bell housing to pull the gearbox.

--
Tom - '60 544, '68 220S, '70 145S, '86 745T, '06 Mazda MPV