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I've always loved and wanted a VW Vanagon. Unfortunantly I don't want an unstable, underpowered vehicle so I doubt I'll purchase one. That said, I'm considering a pop-up camper trailer but I just stumbled across an opprotunity to purchase the pop-top from a vanagon. This gave me the idea to mount the pop-up on a volvo 240 wagon. I have added a pohotoshoped image of what it might look like and I think it could work. I did some rough measurements and is should fit on the roof of a 240 wagon.
I would like some feedback to see if anyone thinks it is realistic or if it would require too muck modification. I can see that some body modification would be required to make the access opening and also to mount the unit. Does anyone think this would greatly reduce the bodys rigidity or saftey? My vision of this conversion would have the rear seat removed and covered over to create more open space for seating and/or possibily a small camping stove.
Also, what year 240 would you choose to do this conversion to and why?
Thanks,
a
--
82 245 B21F-MPG (LH 1.0) k] , 83 244 B23F (LH 2.0) k]
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"Google" Volvo 240 ambulance, limo and hearse.. They made these special editions for the Euro market. But the ambulance is probably more of what you're talking about. I've seen a normal 240 wagon for sale where a guy cut off most of the roof, and made it retractable, like a "super moon roof," but you're on your own with all of that.
Either you're gonna have a one of a kind model when you're done, that you can put money into, or just a headache w/problems; aka "The just junk it Edition.." So, risk it with a nice one, or experiment with a bad one.. It's up to you...
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Two things..
First, I have converted my 245 into more or less a camper by removing the back seat and replacing it with a wood deck. The deck has a hinged opening. With the back seat gone there is now a LOT of storage space underneath the deck (where the folded seat used to be). That leaves lots of room for a bed and stuff in the back. Doesn't give more air flow like a pop-top would but I've been using it happily for years.
Second, back in the early 90's I saw a 145 wagon that had been converted to an extended top, sort of like the hearse factory wagon but with a storage tray/bin over the front seats. ??? The car had a custom metallic orange paint job too. Quite a ride! Looked like the top was a cast fiberglass add on...Never met the driver and never did figure out who made the top. Again, not a pop-top but a neat camper conversion. Always wondered who did the conversion, what company made the top and if they made them for 245's.
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Can we see some pics of this conversion? I've searched extensively for pickup and 245 camper conversions - theres not much out there.
it inspires me to go out and do some boondocking,
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For the 145 it wasn't an aftermarket conversion, it was a factory job.
It's called a 145 Express. You can Google that
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Wow. Sure enough...That's it. I guess the special orange flake paint made me think it was custom, plus the fact I never saw another one. Guess I just don't get out enough.
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Mr. Nabisco!
Me need me some Nabisco Shredded Wheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Volvo 240 Wagon Pop-up Camper?
Nah, Volvo 240 pop-up camera.
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How about taking the only good thing about the Pontiac Aztek - a pop-up tent that mounts to the rear hatch? Pop it up for dining, changing or chilling, use the wagon bed for sleeping, then collapse the tent and you're on your way. No roof cutting, no roof leaks.
--
Mike F - 1984 244 DL - 317,000 miles
Original engine, transmission, drive train, starter
Undergoing reconstructive surgery with POR-15
1972 142 S - The Yellow Brick - 135,000 miles
All stock except for Weber Carb. B20B engine. M40
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Like this my Lord?
conversion kit
1. heavy duty rear spring & sway bar from IPD
2. steel plate stabilizer behind the rear wheel
3. sliding hinge
4. collapsible floor
5. built in REI camping tent with windows
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You read my mind. This was also a thought especially for bad weather. My "camping" is comprised at times of just parking with other cars (hotels, safe areas) and acting like nothing is happening. I had a 740 wake me up at 5 am a few weeks ago while on a road trip to a national park. He pulled up next to me for a second like they might try and take a part or something. Then they just left.
I was thinking that a custom made tent would be great for camping. I'll have to look into this particular one. I'm sure the back door would hold the connecting piece shown in the pic.
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I've camped in my wagon a number of times. Recently in the desert on a hot day with a little bit of shade I attempted to take a short nap. I had the tailgate open for air circulation. I've thought about it before but that day it kind of hit me that a pop up would be nice if only for allowing for a little head room while sitting up and to allow air flow.
The photoshopped illustration shows a full sized pop up. The earlier VW busses had that small half sized pop up in the middle of the roof. I was imagining a smaller one installed over the rear cargo area of the wagon. The smaller pop ups go straight up if I recall correctly. No place for people to sleep but air flow and head room while changing.
The other modification I've brainstormed a bit on would be to install snaps that allow curtains to be snapped into place. Drill the holes and install them into the area around the long windows and tailgate.
I owned a 77 VW Westfalia and miss it a ton. But when I backed into my mothers 1990 244 and it left a nice shallow line in the door while crumpling the rear quarter I put it up for sale and since have owned only 240s.
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I've glued velcro to spots around the windows and sewn the other half to the curtains.
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magnets.
Don't go calling me though. I'm out of the magnet business :)
--
-Matt I ♥ my ♂
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Cardboard works for me (not very classy but cheap and easy)--recently spent two nights at a PA race track on my folding cot in the back of my 245 with the back door windows, rear side windows and across the back of the front seats all covered with cardboard sheets cut to just jam into place--with another piece trapped by the top of the rear hatch covering the rear. It all worked great to keep the headlights of late arrivals from being a bother and stored flat on the floor while in transit. -- Dave
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Hi. While it would be great to have this camper, assuming Volvo engineered a redesigned roof structure around this hole in the roof, just cutting the opening would IMHO be disastrous.
To install the camper top, you'll have to cut through several transverse roof structures that provide stiffness to (1) support the roof against a "rollover" collapse, (2) dissipate energy across the top (together with the bottom) to protect against side impact, and (3) contribute to chassis torsional rigidity. Consider the size of a Volvo's sunroof (on cars so equipped) -- they're small, to fit between those critical cross-pieces. This camper top's installation has to require cutting and removing them.
Just as you (expressed) fear, I would agree that it would severely reduce the structural rigidity of the roof, and therefore the whole body. Structural rigidity in the body is crucial, because the car is a unibody, and it relies heavily on the roof and A-D pillars to compensate for all the glass area. I believe that this kind of job would invite flex, groans and rattles in the body, and can even affect handling (because of chassis flex).
To prevent these drawbacks, you would have to fabricate a rigid box structure around the opening and weld the transverse braces to it. That would be very difficult, especially if you want to work with light-weight alloys.
Sorry.
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Even if the structural rigidity was compromised, I believe it would still be far safer than a Volkswagen camper.
The Volkswagen roof had more of an arch to it. The opening for the top was cut high enough in the arch that water leaks were never a problem unless there was damage to the top. I'm not sure how the width of a Westy top compares to the width of a 240, but if the edges of the top were to come down close to the rain channels, I suspect the same effect could be achieved along the sides. However, you'd have to come up with something different at the front and back ends.
This is a cool idea!
--
1966 122s, 1968 142s, 1969 144s, 1979 245dl, 1989 244gl
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Ken, as always, you nailed the concerns on the head. One additional one to toss in would be chronic water leaks unless extreme care was taken in adapting the camper shell to the roof.
jorrell
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!
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In Germany, the Vanagon, known as Transporter everywhere outside the US, is legally considered a 1 ton truck. They are not as unstable as you might think, and have some fairly serious brakes. Yes, many US versions were underpowered, particularly the diesel, with a 1600 Rabbit motor.
Putting the Westfalia popup in a 245 is a very cool idea. The car to use for the conversion is a 245 Express---the factory raised-roof model. Too bad they are impossible to find here. Other than that, no particular year or model would be the best choice, but you want to start with a car in good condition with no rust issues.
Doing the actual conversion will compromise structural integrity to some extent due to removal of roof cross braces. However, if the roof perimeter framing is left completely intact. It might even be possible to reinforce it in some way. Probably the best way to figure out if/how it would work is to get the poptop assembly, then go to a junkyard and buy the roof of of a 245 they are about to crush. Cut it (or have them do it) near the bottom of the posts. If you use a hacksaw with a good blade, it goes surprisingly fast. Then mount the poptop to the roof panel, do all your figuring and fitting, make all your mistakes on the test panel, actually bolt the poptop in place, before you start to cut the actual car.
If possible, take pictures and measurements of the hole in the roof of the VW. Better yet, if it's in the junkyard, get the roof skin with the whole hole in it. They you can lay it on the Volvo roof as a template.
You will need to figure out some kind of fairing for the leading edge of the popup.
If the Vanagon top is too wide, one for a late (75-79) Bus might be a little narrower.
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Thanks for the insight. I would love to get my hands on a 240 Express and I would probably kill for a 240 ambulance ;^) but I doubt any of that would be reasonably possible unless I lived in northern Europe. I just had a thought that might make chopping up the roof less of an issue. What about using the stock sunroof as the access point. It would probably require the topper to be moved forward more, but might work. I don't have a sun roof, so it's hard to visualize if that would be big enough for access. I'm also failing to recall what the vanagon access hole looked like (and how big it is). -time to search the internet for pictures...
I've also thought about installing it backwards, making access slightly easier from the hatch, but then again, I believe the back end of the wagon roof was reinforced for rear-end collisions (I read some post on BB about the third row seat and rear-end collisions). Also another thought comes to mind... maybe the roof would need to be reinforced anyway to support 2 people and the topper?
--
82 245 B21F-MPG (LH 1.0) k] , 83 244 B23F (LH 2.0) k]
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It's been a while since I looked at a 240 with the headliner out, but I think there are 2 cross braces--between the B and C pillars, and maybe a third one over the cargo area. Sunroof cars are different from regular. The roof skin is only glued to the cross braces with mastic, NOT welded. If you can leave the two forward braces intact and open only the area over the cargo floor, I would not worry too much about compromising the structure, and some reinforcements of 1" or larger square tubing would make up for most of the loss---the braces are only ribbed strips of sheet metal, spot welded in place at the ends, that rely on the mastic holding them to the roof skin to make a crude approximation of a box section. My point here is that they don't really add all that much to the strength of the vehicle. I would much rather have a major crash in a 245 with a poptop grafted on (and a couple of crossbraces removed) than in a completely stock VW Bus.......
As for roof loading, it's either 50 or 80 kg (can't remember right off) for a roof rack and cargo. The top itself shouldn't weigh any more than that, and there will only be people up there is when the vehicle is stationary, at which time the weight is less of an issue. (too much weight on top affects stability while driving) The roof pillars can support the weight of several cars without collapsing.
I believe if it is done right (well thought out beforehand, and carefully fitted together without cutting the roof perimeter reinforcement of the 240) the result would be adequately strong for regular use, though crash safety might be slightly impaired.
Another thing to look for when examining the hole in the top of the VW---if there is a raised rim or flange of any kind around it, you will want to cut that off, and weld it on to the Volvo, so that the top will seal properly. As others have mentioned, water leaks could be a problem with this conversion.
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I like the idea. Actually, my Wife and I were in the market for a VW Eurovan Weekender a few years back.
I think there would be a few major obstacles to overcome, however. First of all, I wonder if any structural rigidity would be compromised in the cutting of the roof. Also I'd worry about the amount of useable sleeping space in relation the the size of the access hole. I've slept in the back of my 245 before. With the rear seat down there was just enough length for my 5'11" frame. So when you think of it that way, the access hole would really have to be over the forward passenger compartment to maximize the sleeping area. Overall width of the sleeping area would be another concern, IMO.
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Very interesting idea. I used to own a '69 VW pop up bus but got rid of it for reasons you mentioned : underpowered and unstable. In looking at your visual conception and remembering the VW bus(and maybe forgetting too as it was a long time ago)I think the VW bus interior height is higher then Volvo wagon is so you might want to somehow mount pop up higher somehow extended higher then roof plane. That way one could actually stand up in it somewhat comfortably. Just a thought. Please do keep us informed if you do go ahead with this most interesting project.
--
' 86 manual sedan nearly 210,000 and ' 87 auto sedan nearly 125,000
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Oh God please don't.
Get a nice daily driver Volvo, and a teardrop trailer.
Then you have the added benefit of a roof that won't leak.
Unless you're a body man, don't do it.
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