Any tips on getting the crankshaft bolt off? I am trying to get in there to install a new pulley with an EDIS adapter and a new cam. The head is off so I cannot do the rope trick. I have tried an impact wrench, breaker bar, some mild heat and get the big bubkiss.

Once I really crank on it starts to back up, that is with the e-brake on (which now I know needs to be adjusted) and it is also in 4th gear. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks for all of the tips and advice. I finally got an adapter from a 3/4" to a 1/2" put it on the end of the bolt and welded it on real hot. Once I did that had the wife do the starter trick for a couple of minutes. Then I cranked on it once and it popped!!!!

Pulled the bolt out and there was quite a bit of yellowish sulfur smelling particles. Either way it is OUT!!!!

thanks again and I wish you all a happy holiday season.

Ryan

That was a tough fight.

Try NEVER SIEZE on the threads during the Install.

Glad you finally won that battle
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Well done! Now relax until after Christmas!

Wow... I admit I've not read all the responses here, but I'll throw out a variation that a friend of mine used to use when he had a stripped nut. He'd take his mig welder and add a blob to one side of the nut and then use some vice grips to torque it off. You sound well past this point.

I've removed these same bolts many times with just a 1/2" drive 2' breaker-bar and a standard socket. Something's wrong here to cause you this much grief...

One thought is that you should heat that bolt up with a torch and then cool it quickly. It will ruin the temper, but the bolt with swell slightly when hot, and shrink when cooled and this may break the friction holding in place. I think this is suggested in the BB 700/900 FAQ.

I do have an idea to get you around that stripped bolt head and my suggestion comes from the problem I usually have with the really big nut that secures the cam.

Until I finally picked up a 1 7/16" 3/4-drive socket, I used a very big old-time PIPE WRENCH. Those will bite into anything, even stripped steel.

To get the leverage I needed to break that nut loose, I'd remove the wooden wrench handle and use a 1.5" diameter 6' steel pipe slipped over the steel shank of the wrench. Massive leverage and massive biting power. This has worked EVERY time I've needed it. It has yet to fail me.

If the pipe-wrench does fail you, you might as well give up and drill that baby out, because it is simply not coming back out.

Note: because of the damage the wrench will do to the nut/bolt head, I do not recommend it for every-day work, but it is a good tool to have for last-resort problems.

Hello,

Have you tried using the starter motor in conjuction with a breaker bar?
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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90501

I have tried that. I was able to heat a 13/16 socket hot enough to go around the stripped bolt and used the breaker bar method with the starter, naaddaa. This is beginning to thoroughly piss me off.

I tried welding it on, I don't have the heat to weld the socket to the bolt. It just pops off.

Hello,

Is your battery fully charged?

You might try using 2 batteries to supply extra power while cranking.

Connect the extra battery with jumper cables.

Also allow the end of the breaker bar to move towards whatever you are using to stop it. Try to limit the travel to a couple of inches. This will allow the starter to create some inertia that might be able to break the bolt loose. Be very careful as the breaker bar usually comes off, so protect anything that the breaker bar might hit as it falls.

If this still fails, you may have to lock up the flywheel mechanically and get a large cheater bar which can be simply a piece of pipe that goes over the handle of your current breaker bar.

If you are using a 1/2" breaker bar, do not be surprised if you break it.

You may need to step up to a 3/4" breaker bar and a 1/2" to 3/4" adpater should be easily available so that you do not need to buy another socket.

BTW, be aware that the handle will be larger in diameter for the 3/4" breaker bar so you might need a larger piece of pipe for a cheater.


--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90501

If you have the flywheel locked up or a piston jammed as others have suggested maybe you need to graduate from a half inch breaker bar to a 3/4". The bigger bar will not flex and you can use a giant sized cheater bar. Personally speaking my trusty IR 1/2" impact has yet to meet a crank bolt it couldn't turn. BTW--you are turning the bolt counter clockwise, right?

I am turning it counter clockwise....I wish the solution were that easy!

The engine is off of a 140 series, so it had a 2 or 3 belt grooves which means the bolt is recessed a bit into the the pulley.

I think that I am going to try some more heat on the socket, cherry it, whack it onto the stripped bolt and then try the starter trick some more, breaker bar with a big pipe, whatever it may take.

Like I said the Mig that I have probably does not produce enough heat to weld it on. To the bolt.

Another thought, if I grind the head off can I pull the pulley off and then use a big ole pipe wrench on the end of the bolt?

A big thanks to everyone for their help. We'll get this some way.

Don't get it TOO hot. Cherry red is too hot. It will likely cause damage, whereas a lesser amount of heat will get results. Normal operating temperature for these parts is around 200 degrees F. You should be able to heat it to 500 degrees without any problems, which is hot enough to deal with the Loctite possibility Sdewolfe raised. Cherry red is 1200+ ---more than hot enough to melt main bearings and remove any temper from any parts that have it. The bolt would become very soft, and likely to wring off, at that temperature too---all in all, not a good idea. Better is a steady heat, to a moderate temperature, for long enough to get the whole front end of the crank too hot to touch, but not so that anything is glowing.

You are replacing the pulley, so if it would improve access, consider destroying the existing pulley. The one-piece, three row pulley that came on 74-75 models is made of cast iron. Drill a closely spaced row of holes in each of the spokes and hit it with a hammer. It should break right off, then you can get to the bolt head easily, to heat it, weld it, cut a new smaller hex, or whatever. If you later decide to go back to a stock pulley, the single-row, sheet metal one is a better choice if you don't need the extra slots for PS and AC belts. It weighs about 8 ounces, as opposed to the 8 lbs of the big cast iron one.

Or you could leave the pulley intact and use a deep socket, or a 2" extension on a regular socket, to get a better angle on the breaker bar. The method of heating a socket red hot and hammering it on is a good way to ruin sockets, but not get the bolt loose. When you heat a socket that hot, it draws the temper of the metal. When it cools off, it will be soft, and will round out inside rather than gripping the bolt head.

Some cars had a two row, two piece pulley. If yours is one of these, unbolt the second row (originally for an AC belt) and remove it for better access.

Cutting/grinding off the bolt head to remove the pulley is another possibility, though it has the drawback of leaving a much smaller area to grip. I think it is a 7/16" shank, as opposed to the (originally) 13/16" bolt head.

Also, be careful with the cross bar method of blocking a piston to keep the engine from turning. While this should be OK in normal circumstances, the use of a 6 foot cheater pipe could result in enough torque to bend a rod. The hit-the-starter method is safer.

I didn't really attack it today, to much shopping to do. I did try to get the welder back in there and weld a socket onto the plate behind the bolt. I set up the breaker bar a few inches from the concrete and had my wife hit the crank it quickly. The weld came of. Like I said before I just don't think my 115 wlder has enough to get a good bond.

It is a 3 row pulley. A real pain to get into it. I am thinking more and more about grinding the head down to get to the pulley off, I am just afraid that it I do that, even with a pipe wrench attached that I will not be able to get it out. then I am really screwed. I really don't want to pull the entire crank.

thanks to all and happy holidays

Merry Christmas Ryan,

I've been watching this thread wondering what on earth could be the problem when I remembered a problem a co-worker had on his Jeep. He had added wheel spacers to move his oversized wheels out. The spacers came with some version of green Loctite which he used to install the spacers. When he tried to remove the spacers, to remove the rear drums, he could not remove the nuts from the studs.

If someone previously used this particular Loctite, you will need at least 450F to get it to let go. From what he told me, a 1/2" bolt will break before this stuff will give up.
--
Mr. Shannon DeWolfe -- (I've taken to using Mr. because my name tends to mislead folks on the WWW. I am a 51 year old fat man ;-) -- KD5QBL

that was going to be my suggestion...to grind the head off, pull the pulley(s) off and then weld a big bar onto it...
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Dale

I have tried an impact wrench, the rope trick, ratchet with a long pipe, a breaker bar rested on a jack stand the other end on the cement then start it for a millisec. Nothing....

Whats worse is the bolt is now stripped. I have tried 3 different 7/8 sockets, is just spins inside the socket.

So now???? Should I pull off the socket a bit and then weld the gap between the bolt and the socket? That is the only thing that I can think of at this point. I just hope that I am not going to damage the actual crankshaft while torquing on it.


And yes planetman I need some throttle parts.

If you have the standard single-row stamped sheet metal pulley, access to the bolt should be fairly good. Use a cutoff wheel on a Dremel tool to reduce the size of the bolt head to 3/4, or perhaps 18mm if it's really badly chewed up. If you try this, TAKE YOUR TIME doing it. Don't try to do it with a regular air-powered cutoff wheel. It is not a precise enough tool. It is important that the new hex be accurate, both in size and symmetry, and that the flats are at a right angle to the face of the bolt head. If you make the new hex a tiny bit oversize, it will be a tighter fit in the socket. As for the socket itself, you should be using a good quality (Snap-on, Mac, Craftsman etc.--no cheap China or Taiwan tools, please) 6 point socket that is not heavily worn. It can be either regular or impact, as long as it fits the (re-hexed) bolt head well. The only real advantage of using an impact socket is that you WILL NOT break it, no matter how long a cheater pipe you put over the breaker bar. Make sure the socket is fully seated on the bolt before trying (by whatever means) to turn it. If it's cocked at an angle, it will chew up the new hex you have just spent an hour making.

If you are not up for resizing the bolt head. Planetman's idea of welding a nut to the damaged bolt head sounds like the way to go. The problems you had in your attempt to weld the socket on were probably due to the type of metal the socket is made of. You did remove any chrome plating from where you were trying to weld, didn't you? A nut is made of ordinary steel, which is more easily welded than the tool steel of a decent socket. I would suggest getting a nut somewhat larger than the original bolt head size, (1"-1 1/8" ?) and doing the welding on the inside of the threaded hole. This way the hex flats remain undamaged. While it is not absolutely essential, try to get the nut centered on the bolt as closely as possible. It is less likely to break the welds that way.

Unless you really overdo it, you shouldn't have to worry about putting too much heat into the front of the crankshaft while welding. You were going to replace the oil seal anyway. The only real risk is damaging the front main bearing, which is on the other side of the timing gear. The bearing surface is a soft alloy that melts at a relatively low temperature. A MIG welder would be the best choice.

Clamp the ground electrode to the crankshaft pulley, so that the welding current does not flow through the bolt, into the crankshaft (tending to further stick the two parts together) and from there into the block, via the main bearings, as it would if you clamp it to some convenient spot on the engine.

Hello,

If you have a 6 bolt crankshaft, the correct socket size is 13/16".

Worse case scenario, just weld a nut to the end of the crankshaft bolt.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90501

Do they still make the crankshaft blts?...or can I use something else?

thanks

Hello,

A good hardware store should be able to help.

If not, I have plenty of good used ones.

Be sure to get the correct length for the pulley set up.

Just last week I changed the front crankshaft seal on a long time customer's engine that I personally assembled over 10 years ago. The customer had added on A/C by himself and used the later Volvo 2 piece stamped steel dual groove crankshaft pulley. He reused the original bolt and the pulley assembly was being held on with only 4 threads.

--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90501

It's a common thread and length. Just take it once removed to a good fastener supply shop and they'll have one. Grade 5 will be fine.

Check your e-mail.. I sent you some thoughts and a PIC
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.no.net/ebrox/Tony's%20cars.htm

Did you try breaking it loose with the starter? Use a socket on a breaker bar, with the end of the bar wedged against the floor or a solid metal part of the engine compartment, (remember which direction the crankshaft turns, and locate your bracing point accordingly) and hit the starter. This has always worked for me, on everything from a B18 to a B230. Shouldn't make any difference that the head is off, though you will need to be extra careful that no wires are touching anything, and shorting to ground. (less of a problem on an older car without FI) Hit the starter quickly and release---don't hold it for any length of time if it doesn't break the bolt loose. Try it several times---its the sudden impact that does the job, not the torque of the motor after it is fully engaged, and continuing to give it juice if it doesn't turn will oveheat the motor and can burn it out if continued for too long. Several quick jolts will not do it any harm.

Sorry! Link crashed!

"If you still have the engine in car, Which you should.
Have it jacked up, put a large breaker bar on the end,
now put a 5-6foot pipe over that breaker bar.

And now, to keep that crank in place, You'll need a second person,
Have them put the car in 5th gear, and then Firmly step on the breaks."

Greetings,
I would try bolting a stout piece of lumber or a steel bar/plate across one of the cylinder bores with the head bolts and stuff some rope or rag between it and the piston, al la "rope trick" without the head.
Hope this helps. rcs

Thank you for the tips. I had a few pieces of metal laying around, drilled some holes, got some spacers put the bolts in and wallaa, install the rope, get the boys to sit on the breaker bar and I snapped the ratchet....I will have to pick another one up tomorrow.

I think that this will work though, even if it takes my heavy ass on the breaker bar.

thanks again and happy holidays

Don't even CONSIDER using your new ratchet for this job. They're not designed for this sort of torque. Ratchets are for doing up and undoing fasteners that have when they are "loose". I know we all break he rules sometimes. Once you tighten up to 20-25 ft/lbs, switch to a fixed bar or proper torque wrench.
For this job use a 3/4" drive socket and bar, borrow if you have to.

Hello,

Were you looking for throttle parts?

Return springs and throttle cables are still available new and I keep them all in stock.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90501

That's a good one! I'll have to remember that one!

Paul

How about trying the flywheel trick? Take the starter out and use a big slotted screwdriver to hold the teeth! I've used a little tool with two teeth that can be bolted down to hold the flywheel:




It would be easy to make, and it works! Either way (tool or screwdriver)!

Paul

Sort of like what Paul said in terms of pulling the starter off. I have pulled the starter and then hammered a shaved down 2x4 in there and let the teeth of the fly wheel bite into it until the bolt broke loose.... I have never had to do this in a car, just loose engines laying about...


Chris