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My B20 on my 142 seems to be dead. The official verdict is that the cam has worn out to the point where it no longer has enough vacuum to start properly. I'm getting a quote to rebuild it. What seems like a reasonable amount to charge for a stock rebuild? Or are there any other worthwhile options? Does anyone know much about swapping a B20 with a different make of motor? I have another post asking about swapping it out for a deisel motor. Any info would be appreciated. I want to get Helga running again w/o it costing me too much money or trouble.
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Hello,
Mr. DeWolfe gave some excellent advice. Does the "official verdict" come from a mechanic familiar with old Volvos? Years back I remember feeling certain my engine was dying. Eventually, it stopped working altogether. Turns out it was those evil Strombergs. They were responsible for horrible fuel economy, poor power output, dieseling, very difficult starts (esp. but not exclusively on cold days) and really made me think my engine was on its last legs. Replacing the ZS carb setup was a revelation to me. Just this year I had a good look at the cam and other internals of my vehicle for the first time and everything was peachy. B20s are known for their extreme sturdiness and longevity. I'm not saying it couldn't be a worn camshaft, bad lifters or (less likely still) severe engine wear. I'm just offering another possibility.
If the verdict is sound and the problem is isolated to ONLY the camshaft, repair costs should be minimal. Here's roughly the parts price breakdown I had when I upgraded to a "D" camshaft a couple of months ago: "C" or "D" grind camshaft = ~$96, lifters = ~$80, four replacement gaskets = ~$40, motor oil and engine lube = ~$15. Of course, Mr. Dewolfe makes a good point in suggesting a refresh while you're in there to ensure top performance and longevity. If you choose to put in another B20, bear in mind that they came in several different flavors from '69 to '75, some of which may be more desirable to you.
Best of luck to you!
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Mr Serpent6 - Thanks for the good beta. You've been plenty helpful in the past, too. I'll be yanking the little B20b out soon and Ill let you know how that goes.
As for the different B20 flavors, do they differ much other than the type of heads they come with? I've been planning on buying a SP head from Vintage Performance Developments at some point to boost my B20 after I'd done some work to the rest of the motor. What do you think?
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Hello,
I'm no expert on B20s, but I can't think of too many reasons to be too picky other than the many types of heads offered over the years. Unless of course the engine comes with all the 'fixins. If you could get your hands on an engine that included a pair of good HIF6 SUs or that was retrofitted with quality HS6s, well that'd be great. Even an included Weber DGV would be better than those ZS carbs. Of course, most post '70 B20s are fuel injected and will require a little more work and modification if you wish to keep your vehicle carbed and "brainless". Fuel injected models came with a separate dual outlet exhaust manifold that I prefer to the intake\exhaust combo manifold (if the engine seller were to leave this item in place). Best of luck in selecting or rebuilding an engine. That's kinda my dream project!
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VPD does EXCELLENT work.
But you might be getting a lot more than you need, paying a lot more and waiting
a long time for it. John occasionally has a big backlog and when he does it is hard
to get any communication from him to find out when you might get it back together.
If it was mine I would find a 72-73 B20E or F and put it in there and then tear
down the engine that got the bad report and see what you have. But before you do
that I would measure the lift of all the valves (should be be about 3/8" or a bit more on all of them) and get a good compression check both dry and with about a spoonful of SAE 30 oil in each cylinder.
This report of "not enough vacuum to start" sounds (as Tom & Ray Magliozzi would say) BOGUS!!
--
George Downs, Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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I would seriously consider swapping in a B21 or B23. In the long run, the OHC engines are more durable and more reliable. They don't have the performance potential of the OHV red blocks, but they will literally run for 300,000 miles with nothing more than oil changes and an occasional valve adjustment. I never had a B20 that didn't eat a cam every 75K-100K. The B230F in my '86 240 is still humming along at 310,000 miles with good compression and very minor oil use (about 1/2 quart every 2,000 mles). It's never been opened up! It also pulls stronger than a stock B20F and runs smoother with its more "modern" fuel injection setup.
The conversion is a little tricky, but it is not uncharted waters. A good B21 or B23/B230 and M46 combo can be had for $500 or less, which is probably quite a bit less money than the cost of a proper rebuild for your B20.
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Howdy Joe,
The official verdict is that the cam has worn out to the point where it no longer has enough vacuum to start properly.
That would be a terribly worn cam indeed. Have you measured the lift, or lack thereof? Is the engine otherwise healthy? Cranking compression? In other words, is the cam the only known problem? The cam and lifters can be replaced, rings and inserts installed, and freshen the head. That can be done for about $200 in machine work, about $400-$600 in parts, and a lot of your time and effort. Of course if the engine is badly worn it will be more work and money.
Regardless, your question is about replacement engine alternatives. The easiest and least expensive route is to buy a rebuilt or used B20. They come up from time to time, sometimes cheaper than rebuilding your engine. Check the classifieds here, IPD, Volvospeed, and Turbobricks. Also check craigslist as they do come there every now and then too.
Changing to a B21/23/230 is certainly an option but is not easy nor would it be inexpensive. Some custom bracketry/adapters and a decision about upright or slanted will determine the course of that choice.
Choose a diesel carefully. A diesel project is not to be taken lightly. If you know what you are doing or you are willing to pay some people who do know what they are doing, it can be done. It won't be inexpensive.
--
Mr. Shannon DeWolfe -- I've taken to using mister because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 52 year old fat man.
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Mr. DeWolfe - Thanks for your input. My mechanic is one of only two professionals in town willing to work on cars of this vintage. I see a lot of older Volvos, Saabs, Audis, and VWs in his shop whenever I need to visit him. He's given me plenty of good info and I do trust him. He's mentioned some time ago that my cam was worm as well as the timing gear and suspected my engine had less than a year to go. That was optimistic, I guess.
I'm not entirely sure how healthy the engine is otherwhise. She leaks plenty of oil, but only burns a tiny bit when I start her up. She runs great once she's warmed up, but she does have to warm up for a while. She has just under 185,000 miles on her. She seems like she was well taken care of, as the car is super clean inside and out. No rust. Few dents. Good tranny.
I do believe I'll start searching for a replacement of some sort. I'd like to get her running again in the near term. Then I can begin rebuilding my B20b myself. I think if I take my time with that I can do it properly.
Thanks again for your input.
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