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I noticed Jorrell and maybe some others have both 245 and XC70. My question is how they compare handling-wise, and road feel. I've driven bricks for 25 years with mods limited to ipd sways, boge turbo gas shocks, and 195/75 tires, and have been satisfied with the results. I like the handling feel. When I've test driven XC70s, steering felt a bit numb and the one I drove at least, had a bit of a "Buick road yacht" feel to it. My question is: are there simple mods which will make an '05-'07 XC handle as well and steering feel as good as a 20 year old 245? I'm eliminating '08 because I've heard that handling is even more "refined."
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posted by
someone claiming to be V70driver
on
Tue May 27 14:54 CST 2008 [ RELATED]
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Some excellent comparisons, very interesting. I have a stock 1999 V70 and handling is surprisingly good for a tall, heavy car, but I think the steering is too numb. I noticed the type of tires make a surprising difference. It has 15 inch wheels, and the original Michelin MXV4 Energy were the best of the lot so far.
Remember, the 140s and 240s had solid rear axles. I recently drove some kind of car with a solid axle, maybe a Crown Victoria (I know, not a real comparison with a Volvo), and on curves I felt the familiar jump when the whole rear end hopped over ruts. It reinforced why I moved away from solid axles 25 years ago and have been happy to not return. (As an aside, the solid rear axle is just another reason it always amazed me that suburbanites voluntarily bought SUV and other truck-based things as their personal day-to-day transport.)
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garrard,
We have had a number of 240s, two of them were rock stock suspension sedans an 89 and a 90. I drove these cars quite hard into turns and everything else, the understeer was a nightmare and the body roll made me think I'd get curb scuffs on the roof without flipping over! The 92 245 I built with virtually no stock suspension parts, is a completely different story, it sticks like a rally car in the turns, the body roll is zero, but it will beat the snot (and teeth) out of you on rough roads due to the 25x25 bars, bil HDs, and poly bushings. I'm sure the upper and lower stiffening chassis bars in the front don't help either when it comes to the bumps. That being said, my wife and I both greatly enjoy driving this true "road feedback machine" that is absolutely neutral in handling. In short, if I had to run from the cops, this would be the car I'd choose!
Now for the 06 XC-70 analysis.... This is a wonderfully comfortable to drive car with all the goodies, more air bags than congress, decent stereo, excellent sound deadening, very decent power, AWD, 24/7 traction control that can save your butt, and just in case some idiot T-bones you, those congressmen will go off and save you from serious injury.
Now for the XC-70 handling, it's braking distance is long, its a very heavy car. Body roll with stock sways is an issue but not NEARLY as bad as a stock 240 sedan! Add in the IPD upgrade sways and body roll is nicely controlled and it doesn't seem to impact the traction control system in the least bit which is superb, ie. a billy goat with steel teeth for tires. Unfortunately, installing the front sway bar is a true nightmare as the lower subframe must be dropped... major PITA, I think IPD calls it a level 4 difficulty job, but it should be an 11! That being said, a nice upgrade that is worth the pain! For a comparison, I'd rather drop and reinstall the trans on a 240 while it is on jack stands rather than tackling this job again!
Now for the downsides of the 06 XC-70, it has a few minor bugs.... The seat belts can not be easily pulled out so they can be fastened if the car is sitting on an incline or leaning sideways. The dealer has confirmed that this issue was a known intent (aka compromise) of the new restraint system. The B-pillars protrude so far into the passenger compartment that it creates a blind spot on the driver side, the upside is that there is a side-curtain air bag in there to protect your melon!
With all of the above being said, if I may make a suggestion, assuming that you are looking for a newer wagon with AWD that handles great right off the used show-room floor? If yes, I would recommend an 03 or later V70 AWD or V70R, handling is awesome, the V70R will give you new respect for 5cyl. power and it sits lower to the ground... along with the upgraded suspension. I test drove a used V70R and drove it so hard the sales dude had to run for the bathroom with his hand over his mouth when we got back to the dealership! I was asked not to return! Oh yeah, I was impressed with the ride and handling!
Based on reports from others, the V70R does not compare to the S60R, so if you want serious power and handling, consider the sedan. Finally, if you decide to go with the the XC-70 or V70AWD or V70R, engine power adders are available for reasonable prices (kinda).
Both the 240 and the XC-70 have their own merits, but beyond the fact that they both have four wheels and were made by the same company, they have nothing in common other than a serious safety focus! Both are great rides, but when it comes to handling, your rear end (and wallet) will have to guide your decision! In short, go make a used car salesman puke! Personally, I think this should be an Olympic event! I won't mention the outcome of the poor sales dude when I test drove a 350Z!
jorrell
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92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!
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Thanks for the review. The V70R is not in the picture with $4 gas. A straight V70 is a possibility, but I wasn't aware that AWD was available. If I go with a V70 or XC70, it probably will have to be fairly new due to some of the expense horror stories I keep hearing about. Warranty will be important. And I agree that scaring car salespeople is great recreation. The new RAV4 6 cyl and Acura RDX are good for that with the higher COG.
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I test-drove a used XC70 last year. It was probably a 2000 or an '01 with about 50K on it. There was a driveline vibration which I didn't like, and the steering was quite numb compared to either my lightly modded 245, or the ex's 850. I promised myself to drive a different XC70 before making a conclusion, but - my first impression was not favorable.
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Thank goodness we don't get all the government we pay for. -- Will Rogers
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I don't have experience with the XC70, but I have extensively (and fast) driven my daughter's 2007 S60 2.5T, as well as many S40 and S60 "dealer loaners", and all these FWD cars handle, at their limits, better than my old 240s (I've had many 240s, 1978 through '93, including wagons).
Yes, I think that the 245 wagons handle very neutrally (the sedans show more understeer) -- I routinely equipped my wagons (and sedans) with H-rated 205/70-14 Michelin MXV4's (when these sizes were available, and 195/70 later on). I, too, swear by IPD's sway bars (but also used Volvo's standard shocks).
Lately, however, I've put Michelin's Exalto PE2s, W-rated, in 205/55 widths, on 15 inch Virgo's (on my wife's car) and 16 inch Hydra's on my own car, both '93 240 sedans, which (with IPD bars and poly bushings) handle very nicely.
Despite this, however, my feeling is that those aforementioned FWD cars surpass the 240's. It just takes getting used to them, however, because YES, they have a different feel. Certainly, the torque-steer effect can still be felt (especially to those of us who are used to RWD), and this gives a more numb steering wheel feedback (or lack thereof).
But if I had to dive hell-bent into a blind curve, I'd rather do it in these new models than my 240's, despite how equipped (with tires and IPD bars) they are.
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Thanks for the comparison. I have no familiarity with the S60. It's the XC that everything I hear about is "pleasant", "competent", "boring." Just not too inspiring on paper.
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