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coolant loss update........any ideas? 900

the ongoing coolant loss has been narrowed down to one area on the heater core.

backround: the coolant travels down the firewall an touches the carpet high up first where your left foot would be if you stretched it out up and over the brake pedal. from there it travels down the to reach the floor carpet on the left side of the drivers area.

the lower copper/brass coolant neck appears to be the source of the leak and if i am correct it is almost literally just behind the where the neck goes in through the firewall.

is there any fix for this short of the entire removal? i have tried bars leak 2 weeks ago and the coolant loss has been around an inch in the over flow tank.

today i pressurized the system to 13 psi and it dropped no more than 1 psi in 10 minutes. clearly we are not talking a gusher BUT it still makes the carpet slightly damp and greasy feeling over time.

all useful ideas entertained.

at the moment i have bypassed the core by connecting the two hoses with a 90 degree bend... length of high pressure copper tubing.








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    latest news 900

    i switched to the black cap a day ago from the green reducing the pressure 50% in the system. i re connected the heater core hoses rechecked the system and pressurized it to 18psi. no appreciable loss over 30 minutes.

    i took it for a 70mph drive and put 100 miles on the car. no coolant loss is measurable in the expansion tank.

    i did notice one odd thing when i gave it all a real going over. the interior is bone dry even on the firewall. the carpets were steamed and are real clean so i figure any crap would show up fast. none, nada, bupkus.

    i took a mirror and held to see the weep hole on the water pump and sure enough it is moist. not dripping or anything but not DRY either. the water pump has less than 4000 miles on it. how is that possible?

    would you if you were me change out the heater core based on current status?








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      latest news 900

      Oh, you really don't want to get into a heater core job until all hope is lost.

      Your suspected leak was at the lower heater core neck where it goes through the firewall and you said it ran down on the driver's side of the firewall. The normal failure point for the heater core neck should be at the base where it's soldered to the core and that's inside the heater core box. Leaks inside the heater core box will normally (as in almost always) run out of the air distribution box and out the ducting either running down the lower back corner of the tunnel, out the passenger floor vent or down the rear floor vent ducting. In all such cases the flat section of the underpadding and carpet is the main area to get soaked rather then higher up on the firewall.

      Any other leak such as you describe should be coming from the engine compartment, presumably running around the heater core nipple opening in the firewall, yet not getting into the heater core box. Normally that would mean coolant was running out between the hose and the nipple and travelling passed the flat foam gasket that seals the nipples to the firewall. If a heater hose has been pried off, such as for a coolant flush or a heater valve change, then the nipple could easily have been crushed which allows this kind of problem (first hand knowledge there). The lower hose is often the hardest one to work on thus the most easily damaged and without it being obvious. The simple act of pushing the hose on as far as possible and re-clamping it a bit forward can stop a leak like that. Perhaps that's what has happened to you. Or perhaps the Barr's has actually done its job. Either way, just keep watch on the situation for now. If the coolant in the expansion tank starts to mysteriously disappear again then check the carpets, blotting them hard with an old towel to squeeze fluid from any soaked underpadding.

      As for the drip of coolant at the weep hole in the water pump, just keep an eye on that area for signs of fluid running down and drying on the pump or the engine block. To help prevent premature failure of the pump, make sure the belt(s) are not overtightened -just tight enough not to slip and squeel on a cold damp day. I had a service department spot a drop of coolant at the weep hole and predict the imminent demise of the pump which had only a few K on it. It never developed into a leak and the pump happily lived on with just a green drop of coolant occasionally seen sitting in the weep hole.
      --
      Dave -940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now








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        thanks for that 900

        thanks... i needed that!

        i have decided to see if the lower pressure black cap will retard the weep leakage before ripping everything apart.

        at this point i drive with tools and a gallon of extra coolant in the car so worse case i stop and refill and limp home or to a store to buy more coolant.

        i have a new hepu on my parts shelf with all gaskets and o rings so it can be done in moment if need be......spares parts city come with owning several b230's in various guises and servicing other family members b230's in various guises.

        between the b230 and aw70/71 this covers a ton of models and decades. makes for sensible spares accumulation.


        it never occured to me to look in the back seats for coolant. i did after reading your reply and find no trace of any wetness or coolant anywhere in the back or tunnel areas








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    i am stumped now! 900

    the heater core is no longer connected.
    the system continues to lose coolant at the rate of 1 inch lower in the expansion tank per week.

    if i pressurize the system without the heater core the system will hold without changing 15psi for 30 minutes.

    i find no traces of coolant anywhere.

    the compression in all 4 is 175 each
    all the plugs look normal color
    no bubbles in the expansion tank with cap off and engine running
    coolant is green








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      i am stumped now! 900

      After all the testing and isolation you've done, my experience with a similar problem says it's simply time for a new expansion tank cap. Standard cap is green. Some people seem to believe the lower pressure (240) black cap doesn't stress the plastic sides and fittings of the rad tank as much, especially in a hot turbo engine compartment.
      --
      Dave -940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now








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        do you think 900

        will changing to black from green make that much difference? in psi?








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          do you think 900

          The pressure rating of the black cap is significantly lower, half that of the green cap. There is obviously a slightly greater risk of boil over on a hot drive or when hauling a trailer. You definitely don't want that to happen. Otherwise the black cap is my personal choice for a 940, especially a B230FT, as the 940 cooling systems simply don't seem as robust as the earlier systems.

          The ratings of the OEM caps are:

          grey = 150 kPa (22 psi) superceded by the green cap
          green = 150 kPa (22 psi) standard issue for all 700/900's
          white = 100 kPa (15 psi) uncommon
          black = 75 kPa (11 psi) for 240's

          Use the search field at the top of the screen with the keywords "cap black green" and you should pull up a number of relevant threads. Read the whole thread as many replies are from our resident experts.
          --
          Dave -940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now








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            thanks 900

            thank you very much for this info

            the car is an NA regina ...93 wagon that hauls nothing heavier than a 6 and 3 yo grandkids and a noisy dachsund. so over heating should not be a problem.

            no real in traffic stop and go traffic jams either.








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              thanks 900

              Dear trichard,

              May this find you well. One unlikely way coolant can be lost: if the in-radiator transmission fluid cooler has failed, coolant will mix with the automatic transmission fluid (ATF). If you pull the transmission dipstick, and the fluid on the dipstick is a clear, rosy red, then this mixing has not occurred.

              If the ATF is cloudy, then coolant has gotten into the ATF. At once:
              (a) replace the radiator
              (b) flush out all of the ATF (9 quarts, but use 12 quarts to be sure to remove every trace of coolant-contaminated ATF).

              Water in the ATF dissolves the glue, that adheres the clutch pack facings. The micro-fibers of clutch facing will clog the fluidways in the transmission, and lead to failure. The Aisin-Warner transmissions are so robust, that coolant infiltration into the ATF is one of the few ways these transmissions fail.

              If the transmission is coolant-contaminated, and flushing it does not prevent problems, do not get the transmssion rebuilt. That's a waste of money. Instead, find a salvage yard, and get a replacement there. Flush it, install, and drive for many years.

              Hope this helps.

              Yours faithfully,

              spook








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                thanks 900

                In addition to Jay's suggestion, take a harder look at the heater water valve. Small leaks in this valve can cause coolant to be blown under the car when you are driving, making the leak quite tough to find. If the valve is eight or more years old, replace it anyway since they do fail.
                --
                See the 700/900 FAQ at the "








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    coolant loss update........any ideas? 900

    I had the same problem and so did whoever owned the 960 before me as the carpet was greasy and stained in exactly the same place. Fortunetly the green & white powdery residue had dried and blocked the leak,probably when the heater was turned off in the summer. When i took over the car it started again so being a believer in Bars Leaks i put two containers in and also sealed the bulkhead where the pipes go through with silicone. Now the carpet is dry and no leaks at all, that was four years ago.







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