I have 5 240's and I am trying to up grade to a 2000 and up year...2 air bags, abs brakes, etc. What would you suggest that does well with racking up the miles, decent gas milage and good on repairs? Tell your opinions. I liked the back window visibility on the s70's..how are they and also anything you can think of Volvo or not...lynn at chmtnbliss@cs.com p.s i obviously just love my 240's and they do all i want but for business i need newer cars.

what about the V90? I'm kinda in the same boat got couple of brick wagons and looking to upgrade. I think the answer to your question would be a lot of test driving of different vehicles. From my past experience different car makes have certain distinguishing charecteristics that seperate it from other makes. thats not to say a v70 is going to feel like a 240. how ever the creature features may more likely be similar. A volvo is not like a subaru. its not to say that its better or worse, its just different. If your used to a RWD. going to a FWD will take some getting used to. but doing a lot of test drives im sure you will find the "one" plz respond to let the board know what you get!

Mazda6 normally aspirated (last season's model). Nice contemporary car, brilliant drive. Good reliability. Hard to DIY fix though if you're keeping for long.

I'd have to say to try a Subaru WRX. Amazing performance, and reliability.

I've been a brick lover since '95 when we got our first one. We still own two, including "Sven".

I felt I had to move to something getting better mpg since I have a commute that's over 50 miles each way, and have been commuting such distances since fall of '01.

So I got a Honda Civic, and I'm not sorry. It's not a Volvo but it hasn't let me down either. Please don't throw any bricks at me.

I suggested an Accord for my parents when they totaled their Camry recently. A bit bigger than Civic so has improved safety and comfort.

For me, the fact that mine is a 5-speed coupe HX version gives it the 'personality' I'm looking for; whether it has a soul or not I'm not yet certain. The HX is optimized for fuel economy, with tall gearing and a lean-burn engine. I've been getting about 40 mpg; had two trips of 150 miles each at 53 mpg before they started feeding us winter mix fuel last fall.

--
Sven: '89 245 NA, 951 ECU, expanded air dam, forward belly pan reaches oem belly pan, airbox heater upgraded, E-fan, 205/65-15 at 50 psi, IPD sways, no a/c-p/s belt, E-Codes, amber front corner reflectors, aero front face, quad horns, tach, small clock.

You're right - don't be sorry for driving a Honda Civic which is one of the best cars ever made.
When I was younger, say thirty years ago, people claimed English cars had "soul" as a pathetic excuse for the reliability problems they had. I still hear people claiming that Miata's don't have soul, but that Lotus Elan's do.....sure.....and soul is what you need busted down at the side of the road.
Volvos have personality, but not soul. Personality makes us name them. Save soul for Ferrari's and E-types and TR-6's as they need bags of it.

In the literal sense, no car has either personality or soul. They are simply a bucket of bolts. We imagine they have personality or soul.

I think that it is more appropriate to make a distinction between "reliable" cars and "fun" cars. Toyota and Honda build reliable cars. That is why so many people buy them. Which is fine. I have driven some "fun" Japanese cars. The Miata and the old Datsun "Z" cars were "fun" cars. OTOH - every Toyota I've driven has been boring!

I have owned a number of German cars, and now an 850. Granted they are generally more expensive to maintain than most Japanese cars. But what they all have in common is that they offer a level of driver involvement that most, if not all, Japanese cars can't touch. They communicate what they are doing at all times with the driver. They are "fun" to drive. In essence, they are driver's cars and most Japanese cars are not.

Me, I'll take fun..:)

But to each his own.......

--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

With no specific requirement mentioned except safety and vintage I'd say 4cylinder Camry. Big enough for safety, economical to drive and repair. And yes BORING!

WRONG! Lets see like the 850 it's wrong wheel drive, to light weight, and not tank like. Oh and the 240 is not boring. By a 940 for dual airbags. The 850/s70 have interference motors which make the motor a time bomb if the belt brakes.

FWD vs. RWD aside, how on earth can you call the 850 "to light weight, and not tank like"? I think you'll find that the 240 and 850 are similar in weight. It's hard to put a finger on what "tank like" is. If you mean tractor-like then yes, the 240 is more of a tractor.

From my limited experience I would say that the 850 uses thinner body panels. However the unibody of the 850 is definitely stiffer (more tank-like??). So the 850 uses thinner steel in a stiffer car, and maintains the same weight even though it packs in more creature comforts and safety features. A lot changed in the 30 or so years between the design of those two models. You don't think Volvo learned anything in that time?

Regards,
Will

Dear Mr. Brick Driver - Man, you were way off base with your comments. The post your responded to (jac912) commented about how Toyota's are reliable but boring, which I agree with. For whatever reason, you turned it into anti-850 rant. Totally irrelevant to the previous posts.

I second what Will said. The safety in an 850 is in the stronger unibody, SIPS (side impact protection system), front and side (1995+) air bags. Take a look at www.crashtest.com to see well the 850 does in real world crashes.

Mr. Brick Driver - Have you ever driven a well-maintained 850 or V70? Bet you haven't. You might try driving one. Your opinion of them might change if you did.

--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

If you check, I think you'll find that the new Camry's are hundreds of pounds heavier than a 240. You might be thinking of a Corolla.

The original poster is looking for a modern car (model year 2000+). I believe all modern cars have interference engines. If you change the timing belt on time in a Toyota (or a 850/V70 for that matter) you are all set.....

I hate to say it, but it is tough to beat a Toyota or Honda for reliability. That is why so many people buy them.
--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

WRONG! Lets see like the 850 it's wrong wheel drive, to light weight, and not tank like. Oh and the 240 is not boring. By a 940 for dual airbags. The 850/s70 have interference motors which make the motor a time bomb if the belt brakes.

For reliability - Toyota, Honda (most models are soulless, however)

For rear wheel drive performance and fun - BMW (expensive to maintain)

For safety - Volvo S60, S70, V70 with or w/o AWD (also expensive)

As mentioned, Subaru. A lot people around here like them because they are comfortable and have AWD. My feeling is they are a notch below Toyota and Honda in reliability.

jw
--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

To me every manual car has a soul. Buy a manual honda or toyota and you will have a blast running them through their smoooth gears and so with their high revving engines.
How does one find soul in an auto car, may be it sleeps in the turbo.

Regards
--
DD-1990 240 DL SW M47II FI 3.1 234 K miles

Do Toyota and Honda still make manuals? Every modern Honda or Toyota I've seen has a slushbox. Except for that sporty Honda (s2000?). That car is supposed to be a blast to drive!

To be honest, I haven't driven a really new Toyota or Honda. I can say the older ones with manual or slushbox weren't very exciting....:)
--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

Yes, Honda makes standard trans cars.
Plenty of 5-spd Civics available; I drive one and it's fun.
5-spd Accord is less common but easier to find than a stick shift 240.

I'm not so sure about Toyota though since I didn't shop for one.
I'm pretty sure the new little Yaris often has a standard trans.
However I suspect that for the Corollas and especially the Camry, it will be more difficult to find a stick shift.

--
Sven: '89 245 NA, 951 ECU, expanded air dam, forward belly pan reaches oem belly pan, airbox heater upgraded, E-fan, 205/65-15 at 50 psi, IPD sways, no a/c-p/s belt, E-Codes, amber front corner reflectors, aero front face, quad horns, tach, small clock.

I'm not going to throw bricks at you for driving a Honda.....:)

They and Toyota's are fine cars. What year is your Civic? I know there are plenty of OLDER Toyota's, and Honda's in particular, that are 5 speeds.

My point was that I personally have seen very few modern Honda's and almost no Toyota's with 5 speeds. The original post was requesting info about 2000 or newer cars. Go to a Honda or Toyota dealership and look at their new cars. There will be very few 5 speeds. Sadly, manual trannies in new cars are becoming extinct...

jw
--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

Toyota does offer 5 speed manual in camry and carolla and it may be couple of hundred dollars cheap as well. I am sure if one can pick the car from dealer in one day or have to wait for some time.

I think original "claims to be" poster with email id has not checked this thread even once.

Cheers.
--
DD-1990 240 DL SW M47II FI 3.1 234 K miles

what makes you think I haven't checked the responses?? p.s. guys...I never said I'm looking for a stick shift..looking for an automatic only. I thought of the 940's but I wanted a little newer model year..thanks all for your feedback,lynn at chmtnbliss@cs.com

May be because you replied too late in the thread and always logged in as "Claiming to be ". Anyway your question is a personal quest for all 240 owners and that is why discussion moved beyond what you want.

Regards,
--
DD-1990 240 DL SW M47II FI 3.1 234 K miles

This is quite a thread you started here........:)

Jim
--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

If excitement is what you're looking for in an older Honda...take a CRX out for a drive in a snowstorm. There's just barely enough torque to spin the front wheels, without enough wheelbase to keep her in a straight line.

In response the the original question: I've been pleasantly surprised by how much I like my V70. With the AWD, it handles more like a RWD than my 740 does.

What year V70? How have your maintenance costs been?

I've been looking for an older V70. In the future I might have a chance to buy a friends 98 V70 AWD with about 100k, but I am concerned about high maintenance costs. They are, however, fun to drive!
--
93 850GLT, 90 244DL 291k :)

It's a '98 V70XC, and I've had it for a year and a half. The '98 version still used a conventional throttle, but has the weaker type of AWD.

Maint costs so far have been high, mostly because I'm doing the things you need to do with a "new" car. The 740 had the same problem when "new." Brakes, front suspension, breather box, & timing belt have all been replaced. The breather box was the only task that was significantly harder than on a red-block. Exhaust work looks like a major chore, as the pipe is snaked through the suspension. Changing the oil is easy and even clean. (One big plus for me is that it takes the same oil filter as the 240/740...later years got a different filter). Engine & suspension parts are a little pricier than with the older cars, but cost of brakes was unchanged.

Unplanned maintenance so-far has been a brake light switch (easy and fairly cheap) and a rebuilt propeller shaft. The AWD system is costly to work on, and is definitely a weak link on the older cars. I did disable the AWD by removing the prop shaft for a few weeks...which is at least an option when the AWD is getting out of hand. It's still too soon to tell what other surprises this car has prepared.

The better cars have rear-wheel drive. Not much to choose from with newer cars. I won't have a front-wheel drive so I'm stuck with things like Corvette, Mercury Grand Marquis, Bentley (if I could afford one), etc. My other car is a Ford Crown Vic, but they no longer sell them except to fleet buyers.
--
1986 Volvo 245

I faced the same question about eight years ago. I wanted out of my 88 740T and thought that a 940 would be good. Then I drove an early Lexus LS400, and for the same money as a good 940 I bought the Lexus. Big, tough, absolutely dead reliable cars, and rear wheel drive. I won't own a front driver.
I've owned 30 Volvos. Now I have two Lexus (Toyotas).
If you need two air bags, get a 93 or newer LS. If you want to spend the money get a 98-2000 LS. Wonderful cars. Don't judge them until you drive one. You'll see.....

reply to Rhys....need a lexus that would be a 4 cyl. gas is a concern..I suppose the 400 ls model is only an 8 cyl. Any other lexus model to recc????thanks, lynn

Hi Lynn;
The LS is a 4.0 litre V-8. But they get 21-22 mpg in town (imperial gallon) no problem. That's about the same as an auto 240 or my 740T. On the highway, 30 mpg. So it's really not a problem.
The engine that put Lexus on the map is that V-8. Wonderful motor.
And the LS is a big safe car like the Volvo. That counts for a lot for me, and always will. Which is why I've never owned a Corolla.

reply to Rhys....need a lexus that would be a 4 cyl. gas is a concern..I suppose the 400 ls model is only an 8 cyl. Any other lexus model to recc????thanks, lynn

reply to Rhys....need a lexus that would be a 4 cyl. gas is a concern..I suppose the 400 ls model is only an 8 cyl. Any other lexus model to recc????thanks, lynn

reply to Rhys....need a lexus that would be a 4 cyl. gas is a concern..I suppose the 400 ls model is only an 8 cyl. Any other lexus model to recc????thanks, lynn

i don't think lexus made anything in wagon form.

I don't recall the OP talking about wagons, but if that's what you need, then an RX300 or RX330 would be the ticket.

the emptiest engine bay i've seen recently was a normally aspirated subaru impreza.

weather,

I agree with you on the nearly empty engine bay, but due to the Subi AWD gas mileage is almost as bad as a Suburban or an XC-70. Not to mention that there is enough slop in the transfer case to rattle your teeth each time you get on or off the throttle. Please note that the above observations are based on a test drive of a brand spanking new 07 Outback with a manual trans.

Ride was comfortable but that clunk never went away. 20 to 26MPG ain't much of a prize nowadays either since our 92 245 pulls 30MPG on the freeway at 70MPH.

jorrell
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

if you can drive an epa rated 26mpg 240 manual to 30mpg, i'd expect you to be able to get 30mpg on an auto impreza--also rated at 26mpg highway. of course, you don't use any less fuel per unit distance, but the newer car will be safer than our 240s and handle better.

Weather,

Forgot to mention that our 92 245 is an auto trans car with an AW-70... I'm looking for an AW-71L with lockup torque converter to hit 31MPG.

As far as safety goes, yes the Subaru is good, almost very good. That being said, I feel qualified to say that the 240 is incredibly safe, especially since an 89 244 without airbag saved my wife's life along with that of our Boxer dog Riley in a 55MPH crash into a creek bank, they are both members of the "Volvo saved my life club". If she had been driving a 90 or later with an air bag, she would have walked away without injury. It is events in a person's life like this that build brand loyalty.

Of course avoiding accidents is in my opinion as important as surviving them, our 06 XC-70 did that on the WVA turnpike in a fashion that left me stunned... I figured we were the cheese in the sandwich on the tail end of a backup around a blind curve. We got out of the way from the inside lane to the outside berm before multiple cars plowed into the cars that used to be in front of us. I didn't think the car could handle my steering and brake inputs at speed due to the high center of gravity, but it did... not a scratch, not even a squeal from the tires as the traction control took over. Okay, the XC-70 23MPG freeway simply stinks... that's my next project.

Except for stating the clunky transfer case, I'm not bashing Subaru, I'm just basing my opinions on personal and familial experience. I guess you could say our Family is a bunch of new and old Volvo fans for all the right reasons.

jorrell
--
92 245 250K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!

I've thought alot about this myself. My girl friend does not like to ride in my 240 because it has no air bags. I'm froogle so 940's or 960's appeal to me. They have dual air bags and abs. The prices are good but the engine my need freshing up (rebuild) to restore original power. She drives an older 325ix 4 door sedan and it is very good, imho.

525 BMW , Manual transmission, wagon or sedan , year 1995-2000 should be a good deal. Wagons are very difficult to find.

if you need wagon then Mb is next choice but you will not be able to find manual transmission.


/*Free buying advice any time.*/