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Hi, got my timing belt and tensioner done as per the FAQ, but I don't think I got the crank pulley tight enough. Car runs OK, but I get a lot of valve clatter climbing uphill. I borrowed the special tool to hold the pulley and torqued it to 44 ft lbs, but what it the extra 60 degree bit? Ipushed it a bit past the 44 ft lbs but the valve clatter makes me think I didn't do it right.
I did adjust the timing belt tension but that didn't stop the hill climb clatter
Barely driving 100 miles a month, less than a mile each way to and from the train but I should fix this.
thanks,
michael
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"I pushed it a bit past the 44 ft lbs..."
Here's what I have to do to get that very important extra 60° of bolt tightening.
I stand and lean over the left fender and pull on a 2' piece of pipe slipped on the 18" breaker bar handle, using my back and both arms. The breaker bar was first positioned to allow 60° of travel in one continuous pull.
If you didn't do something like this, the pulley bolt is not tightened to spec and may loosen.
I can't say what might happen, but a search on loose crank pulley" might turn up something.
Also try substituting "harmonic balancer" for "crank pulley" in the search string.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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So I've got this pinging problem and I'm getting ready to pull the timing belt, assuming I missed a tooth when I did the replacement. I'd read about using the timing light and just this morning recalled a bit about pulling and plugging the vacuum hose when you adjust the timing. So this morning, dressed for work and waiting on the kids waffles to pop out of the toaster, I pop the hood, look at the throttle body and see two hoses going to it. the larger one is cracked right at the throttle body. I cut a half inch off with my pocket knife, press it back on the throttle body and problem is solved. Ran the car up the big hill in question and its fine.
I know the B230 is not a complicated engine but before this car I only worked on a '68 Beetle. I'm a little behind on the water cooled learning curve.
thanks for the advice and suggestions.
Michael
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Pull the belt back off. Make sure #1 is at TDC on the power stroke and the other marks line up with their spots. The crank is harder to see, as it will be a couple teeth off from the mark. Count the teeth to be sure. Its easy to leave a tiny bit of slack between the intermediate shaft and the crank (1 tooth) which will leave the timing off and generate the exact symptoms you describe.
Been there and done that. Last weekend in fact.
Zimm
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Thanks, I was hoping I'd done the belt correctly, but a tooth off seems a likely candidate. Where did I put that crank pully tool???
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Howdy,
You seem pretty adamant that the noise you are hearing happens only under load. Metallic sounds when the engine is loaded is not good. You need to check the timing with a timing light. If it is spark knock or detonation caused by carbon buildup you may be walking to the train before long.
Since this car goes one mile each way ten times a week, there is most certainly a carbon build up in the combustion chamber. (In fact, that may be a contributing factor to the noise you hear.) Once you identify the noise under load and resolve the cause, gas up, add a can of Techron or similar product and go for a nice long ride. Don't spare the whip. Burn out that tank of fuel and then do it again, adding another can of fuel system cleaner.
Any car that sees such short trips every day should go for a Sunday ride at least once a month. Believe it or not repetitive short commutes are very destructive to the engine, transmission, rear end, and exhaust system. The car never gets up to operating temperature to evaporate water that condenses in the enclosed spaces.
BTW, walking a mile to and from the train, if you are healthy enough to so, is good for your health, the car, and your pocketbook.
Just reading what I wrote, it reads "preachy". I don't mean to preach but I do want to get the point across.
--
Mr. Shannon DeWolfe -- I've taken to using mister because my name misleads folks on the WWW. I am a 53 year old fat man. ;-)
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Tighten it up the last 60 degrees or you will shear off the alignment key on the crankshaft gear.
Dan
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I don't see how an inadequately tightened crank bolt pulley could cause Valve Train noise (assuming the pulley isn't coming off). You need to do the full 60 deg additional torque, but that's not relevant to this problem.
You write that it occurs uphill, which to me means under load. Could the valve clatter noise be "pinging" (detonation)? A sound like a can of marbles being shaken? Ping can come from, in these engines, too low an octane fuel combined with too much ignition advance. There is a sensor to retard the timing to prevent ping, but it could be defective, or maybe you've got the ignition so far advanced that it's exceding the system's ability to retard the ignition timing?
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It sounds like a UPS truck going uphill, is that pinging?
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re: "...It sounds like a UPS truck going uphill, is that pinging?..."
If you mean a diesel UPS truck, then yes :-) !
In fact, the typical sound of an older (not the new "common rail" kinds) diesel is due to almost (but not quite) the same combustion processes as that happening when a gasoline engine pings.
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Nick, based on your writing "It sounds like a UPS truck going uphill, is that pinging?", that sounds like ping to me. Also, your description that it happens only on a significant upgrade, and you can remedy it by letting up off the accelerator a bit. Classic ping behavior, aka detonation. If ping is caused by too much advance you do have good power - moderate advance will increase power a bit, all other things being equal - until your foot gets to the point where you have to back off the gas, then of course your power is limited.
My guess is that the ignition timing is off. Possibly one of the timing belt cogs is off by a tooth - the one that drives the distributor.
HOWEVER you have to consider the possibility of other reasons for the timing being off. I'm pretty sure the '87 still had an adjustable distributor, the bolt is on the back side of the distributor mount. That is, the hex is facing up. To adjust, loosen the bolt head and rotate the dizzy. Once set, they don't often need adjustment.
Another reason for off-timing can be that the main crank pulley has drifted. It's actually a harmonic damper. It has a center hub, a middle ring of hard rubber, and an outer ring which is the pulley. The rubber can slip which makes the timing mark on the pulley invalid. Or, if you lost the key when reassembling after the t/b change that would have the same result. True that the crank pulley doesn't drive the distributor. BUT if you set the timing by the mark on the pulley, you're counting on the pulley mark being in the right place.
--
Sven: '89 245 NA, 951 ECU, expanded air dam, forward belly pan reaches oem belly pan, airbox heater upgraded, E-fan, 205/65-15 at 50 psi, IPD sways, no a/c-p/s belt, E-Codes, amber front corner reflectors, aero front face, quad horns, tach, small clock.
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Are all the timing marks lined up? Is the timing correct? What kind of noise is this, knocking or pinging?
I think something's amiss, outside of the crank pulley. As long as it's tight, it isn't contributing to engine noise. There's something else going on.
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when the car is idling? i ask because there is little key on the crank pulley which mates with a click on the crank sprocket. if the two do not key into together the crank pulley will wobble horribly and ruin your engine.
is the crank pulley turning smoothly and not wobbly?
it likely is not wobbly BUT if it is fix asap.
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its a definite clatter sound, which makes me think valves and its only on a steep uphill that I have to climb. No real loss of power, though the noise gets me to back off the throttle a bit, it seems very much RPM related while climbing this hill, just a hint of it on lesser hills and nothing on flat surfaces.
Doesn't sound like knocking or pinging and the car starts right up every morning. I do have that bit where it wants to stall when I first shift into drive or reverse, and I've printed out the throttle body cleaning FAQ to deal with that.
All the timing marks lined up like a breeze, cam, intermediate and crank all lined up with the marks on the new belt. Had to replace the tensioner, the ball bearing fell out when I loosened the bracket.
Thanks.
MS
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its a definite clatter sound, which makes me think valves and its only on a steep uphill that I have to climb. No real loss of power, though the noise gets me to back off the throttle a bit, it seems very much RPM related while climbing this hill, just a hint of it on lesser hills and nothing on flat surfaces.
Doesn't sound like knocking or pinging and the car starts right up every morning. I do have that bit where it wants to stall when I first shift into drive or reverse, and I've printed out the throttle body cleaning FAQ to deal with that.
Thanks.
MS
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