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Greetings
This is a k-jet on a 740 (non American market). This k-jet has no cat converter nor any O2 sensor.
I'm hoping anyone can give me a guide as to where I should look. I don't have a fuel pressure gauge nor does my mechanic.
Issue is the need for double crank to start the k-jet if the car has sat for less than 36 hours. It will crank away happily without the k-jet firing at all during first attempt. Second crank attempt it'll run at 3rd crank or so.
On the other hand after car has been sitting for more than 36 hours, it'll start right away on the 2nd or 3rd crank!
Basic things such as plugs, plug cables, TB, ignition timing, fuel filter have been checked. Aux air valve clean. Cold start injector not leaking. Things have been replaced over the past few years - in-tank fuel pump and socket filter, all 4 injectors and its seals, fuel accumulator, all vacuum hoses. CO mixture as per spec. Have verified fuel pump no check valve.
Appreciate any advice
Aslan
Malaysia - where the lowest ambient temperature is 25 deg C
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Hi Aslan,
I'm also a 240 guy. I thought you used to have one too, also an 89? Probably I am dreaming.
My gauge is the first thing I pull out when working on one of our three k-jet 240's for fuel trouble. I know how much my accumulator holds when I try to contain the fuel that wants to escape when connecting the gauge. The first amount, under pressure, seems to be a hundred, maybe 150 ml, then the remaining is gravity from the filter high up on the firewall.
But when the gauge is connected, the filter and accumulator are filled by the pump and line pressure established in about a count of three (three seconds?), so I am thinking your extended cranking sounds more like the result of flooding than lack of rest pressure. Leaky injector? I know you said they were renewed recently. I would pull plugs after an hour or so, to check for fuel.
Like Phil, I'm surprised to hear there is no check valve at the pump outlet. I know single pump systems, where the pump is inside the tank, don't need one, but I'd think if the pump is remote from the tank, it would be prone to vapor lock without one.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Why do we say something is out of whack? What's a whack?
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Hi Art
I had a look at the 240 k-jet fuel pump in the parts book and it has the check valve shown as a separate part with its own part #. But when looking up the fuel pump diagram on a 700 k-jet, that check valve is not shown anymore.
Could the check valve be incorporated inside the fuel pump in the later incarnation of the k-jet in the 700 series? Is that possible?
I will pursue this issue from the angle of flooding. Perhaps the the cold start injector is is faulty ...
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The check valve is only about a one and quarter inches long. I would have one in hand and change it for changing it.
You have to pull the pump down with the bracket, hoses and all.
It will be under the outlet line going over to the accumulator. It will have a hex flat for a wrench. There is a very fine seam behind the wrench flats. It will look like it’s all in one especially if it’s dirty around under there. Real fun stuff, sometimes.
There will be some gas leakage no matter how you do it. There is some back flow maybe a possibility of some siphoning from a full tank.
So wear gloves unless you’re a real he-man! You know one of those old, wrinkly, stinky, sloppy, holey clothing, balding guys and who really doesn’t care! Oh, remember to put out that stubby cigar!
As far as using some diagrams. You can not count on them having that great of detail. You’re lucky they didn’t put in a symbol of one that had a handle and a little guy with a hat named “motor”. It is what ever they feel like is enough information.
As far as making check valves integrated. It is possible, but once their crimped in, the spring and ball it’s finished. Crimping is a one time thing.
Should it fail quality control pressure tests, they lose the whole pump housing. It is a far more complicated type of precision part.
On the replaceable check valve, it is made the same way but they just lose the short piece.
I thought you cleared the cold start injector as not leaking. As far as not coming on you’ll need a node (or noid) light or meter while cranking to check that. You were talking like it was lean starting after sitting, I thought?
Anyways, keep us informed. We are like deer after a salt lick, we keep coming back!
Ah! Better than deer, even if were shot down.
Phil
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Hi Aslan,
Is that the B230K engine?
Are you losing spark when it wont start
or perhaps the coil is not seeing full battery volts when cranking?
put a meter on the coil see if you get battery volts
maybe you have a flakey ignition switch.
There's more stuff peculiar to the B230K
There's an idle compensation relay and a hot-spot relay
Do they have the hot spot PTC resistor at the intake manifold inlet
in the tropics?
The idle compensation relay looks like it just works while cranking
to send +12V to pin 9 of the EZ-K control unit
the two relays are mounted on the drivers side post near the power steering
fluid container
The relays have different pinouts:
the idle compensation relay: coil-pins 85 & 86 contacts- 30 & 87a
The "hot spot relay" which is mounted furthest away from the engine
the coil is 85 & 86 and the contacts are 30 & 87
I'd be careful not to assume that relays are interchangeable.
The hot spot PTC resistor is mounted at the intake manifold and
the control thermostat is next to it with one black wire to the relay and
a second black wire to an intake manifold ground "E"
Do you see a good spark when the engine wont start?
what do the plugs look like when it wont start and after its running
It's just a hunch to check for +12v at the coil when cranking
maybe there's a flakey ignition switch that sometimes resistive?
Its also a good idea to service all the grounds especially at the intake manifold, frame to battery etc.
I hope this helps you, Bill
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Hi again Aslan,
I guess I was wrong, and that the K-Jet is a B230E... is that right?
Check this web page:
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/fuel_injection/740-89-1.shtml
Bill
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My first thought was a tired check valve on the outlet of the main fuel pump.
After reading more about the hours, I got confused.
I'll stick to rest pressure leak down anyway.
Phil
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Yes. I too first thought it was the check valve as described in the FAQ. However after checking with the volvo parts book and comparing to a B230F fuel pump, the k-jet main fuel pump does not have any check valve. I'm guessing the fuel accumulator is taking up that role.
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Gee, that is surprising. I'm a 240 person and the 700 is a different kind of animal inside and out.
The check valve use to be $11 for the K and $18 for the LH. Screwed right on the end of the outlet.
Every pump I have lifted from PNP has had them. I can not imagine how they are holding rest pressure with out one. The rollers in the pump will still leak by around the ends, if no where else. I like having a spare pumps. If not just for the check valves.
Inside the check valve there is a spring and steel ball. When the pump pluses fuel it makes the spring flex. In doing so it fatiques. Causing it to sway to the inside the housing. This wears the spring thin on one side. It gets more weak. Then it fails all together.
Slow, unsteady symptoms have been my experiences.
The accumulator/filter I think is only a spring loaded flow controlled/reservoir.
Since I have less experience on 700. I'm not one to say that didn't find another way to skin the cat and keep rest pressure.
If they don't offer a valve. Maybe they can sell more pumps because by the time the check valve wears out the pump could or could not be really old.
Doing business this way. They are done with out a return issue on their service work.
Just the customer is the unaware cat! $20 instead of $200 or more in parts.
Good Luck. See you on the BB.
Phil
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Hey, I would check out the ignition amplifier on the fenderwall (it's a Bosch unit, but I think it's on your car...?) or the crank position sensor.
You might also browse the FAQ for more specific (and accurate info).
Good Luck,
Will
--
1990 740 Turbo, on its way to stock specs, maybe beyond
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Swap in a new (spare) ignition amplifier. Car ran better but the starting problem same as before.
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You may be on to something. This car does have the Bosch Ignition Amp on the fenderwall. Heat related? Possible.
I'll have a look at that. This car has no crank position sensor, only the Hall sensor which I've cleaned.
Thanks!
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