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Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

RE: 59 445
Hello Gents,
Here's my problem - an uneven idle due to an accelerator linkage problem. My car idles fast or slow, depending where the linkage takes it. Let me explain (I'm not a mechanic).
My car traditionally idles fast but if I take my foot & place it under the gas pedal & push up it will drop the idle down to a normal idle.
It appears a former owner rigged a "workaround" by attaching a pull down spring to the accelerator linkage (unless this is stock, I don't know), to bring down the idle & keep it consistent. It doesn't work very well.
I'd love to achieve a consistent, normal idle, which doesn't fluctuate depending upon how well the spring works on pullng the accelerator linkage down or not, & not have to use my foot under the gas pedal to bring down the idle.
Here's a link to several detailed photos of the linkage:
http://jimpascale.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album196
-does the linkage look "normal" to you?i.e is that bend in the linkage near the firewall stock?
Any advice as to what to do?
Thanks for any & all advice
Regards,
Jim








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    Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

    Just logged in for a completely different problem (on the 1800 column), but my first impressions of the HS-4 Duett carb issue are based on what I see in your photos, and my own HS-4 experience.
    1.) When they get dirty and gritty on the outside, then they also allow grit into the throttle shaft openings. The grit accelerates (pardon the word) the wear on those soft brass pieces, all that heating and contracting over the miles. Keep them clean.

    2.) I agree that they need special circular return springs on the shafts themselves. The after market return spring does work, but will cause excessive wear if it's like huge garage door spring! Installing "improvements" isn't always a bad thing, but sometimes they do conflict with the original function, which won't be an improvement. The original parts in original functioning condition is always best. Remember, this is 1930's technology. Low-tech at its best.

    3.) You didn't say if the dash pots were always filled, which really affects the idle and (mostly) the acceleration. I use ATF but you can pick you own (low viscosity) poison. You can even buy expensive SU oil from the British car places.

    4.) Correct me if my vision is faulty, but it looks like there is a small rubber "o" ring on the throttle shaft, just under the idle adjustment screw of the rear carb. Good idea in theory, helps to seal any air leaks at the throttle shaft location. However, the resistance it provides as the thing gets hot, expands, and starts to disintegrate, will cause the shafts to bind, and,..you got it, lousy idle. There are creative ways to engineer the use of additional seals on these carbs, but they do require careful attention to the overall effect in operation. I have a German classic car magazine article which shows sealed roller bearings, specially machined shafts with Teflon seals, and all kinds of Teutonic zeal. I'm sure it works, if you wish to invest the effort.

    5.) Consider buying a second set of HS-4 carbs, rebuilding them to original, or better specifications, then keeping them in reserve. Then, when you start having problems (and you will!)just swap them out. Minimal down time; half an hour, versus days, or weeks of down time.

    6.) I know we shouldn't be using the BB to self-promote, but I do have BOXES of everything you could need, plus NOS (SU and Volvo) rebuild kits. 30+ years of being a Volvo-holic adds up!

    Hope this adds something to the discussion,..










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    Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

    Wow! You guys are terrifc. Thanks so much for taking the time to look at the photos of my carb. setup & giving me your advice on what I need to do to fix the problem.
    So,I need the following parts:
    -throttle shaft return spring
    -replacement piece of linkage (straight!)to be installed from firewall to rear carb
    -soft ball grommet
    Any idea where I can source these 3 items?
    Regards,
    Jim








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      Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

      Ooops.
      I also need:
      flexi joint used at the carb end. Dogleg and spring into a U bracket at carb.
      Where do I get these parts on a '59??
      Thanks Derek!
      Jim








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        Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

        For the Carb's themselves, I recommend Victoria British in Lenexa, KS

        www.VictoriaBritish.com

        1-800-255-0088

        The SU HS4 was used on the MGB from 1962-71 and they stock nearly all component parts as well as Rebuild kits

        For the linkage you will have to seek a Volvo "PV" specific source.








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    Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

    The same year PV uses the same bulkhead bracket but has the throttle shaft/lever running in a soft grommet in the upper hole. This grommet used on all PV/Amazons and later P210. Unfortunately there are no pics of this in the 445 parts book but perhaps the 445 used a soft grommet in the lower hole. Not saying that the ball socket isn't correct but I have my doubts, not good engineering practice. I suspect that the shaft is just poked into the hole and doesn't have a ball on. It looks as if the engine doesn't align with either of the holes at the moment and maybe the engine mount rubbers, possibly the gearbox one as well, are the wrong height.
    The long rear helper spring is being used the same way as on the Saab 95/96. That mechanism is a bit clunky too but also uses a soft rear grommet.
    If you can't realign the engine with different mounts or some big washers on the current ones to straight line the shaft into one of the holes with a grommet, you might want to re engineer the bracket a bit so it has a hole for a grommet inline with the shaft. The rod and lever needs straightening out first. As is it will certainly be speeding up the wear on the rear carb body and shaft.
    Nice 445 Jim ,and I hope getting this sorted will make it even nicer to drive.








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      Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

      A Flikr search found these. Note the type of flexi joint used at the carb end. Dogleg and spring into a U bracket, not the zig-zag joining piece as used to mate up the 2 carb spindles.

      Photobucket








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        Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

        The upper hole in the bulkhead bracket could well be for use with the B16A which has a higher mounted single downdraught Zenith.








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    Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

    Not sure why AlSchnertz didn't mention it is that the linkage from the firewall to the back carb
    should be STRAIGHT. It should not have a bend in the middle.
    I suspect that if you straighten it and adjust everything to where it fits together right
    it will work a LOT more smoothly.








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    Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

    It would appear that your rear carb is missing the throttle shaft return spring. I can see the spring on the front carb but nothing on the rear carb.

    The carb spring that runs from the linkage to the top starter bolt is not stock as you already suspect.

    My guess is that the factory rear spring broke and the PO fixed it with the long spring. My other guess is that a refurbushing of the carbs would fix the problem for good.








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      Accelerator linkage problem - advice sought 444-544

      In addition to "all of the above", take a look/feel at the throttle shafts in your carbs. In the SU, they tend to wear the carb body and then leak air - causing idle problems. Can be repaired by reaming the carb body(s) and bushing the hole, or by reaming the carb body(s) and installing oversized throttle shafts.

      Getting the correct springs in place would seem to be the most logical "step 1" in this problem solving exercise.







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