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Tried to check position of piston with pencil, and with the first gentle movement, the end of the pencil snapped off. Can't see it in there. Do I just junk the car now? I am sick, sick, sick.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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To quote the late Will Rogers, "Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else."
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Does that include the guy that drilled through the #1 cylinder wall while removing a busted water pump stud? Or was it like the person that installed a new engine and trans with the flywheel 90 degrees out (timing). Note, the latter was me, and people learned from it.
How about a post like using a "grapple" tool through the spark plug hole to grab and remove the offending pencil eraser and pencil chunk? Simple, easy, no problem.
jorrell
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92 245 315K miles, IPD'd to the hilt, 06 XC70, 00 Eclipse custom Turbo setup...currently taking names and kicking reputations!
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"Does that include the guy that drilled through the #1 cylinder wall while removing a busted water pump stud"? Jorrell
Ouch!!!....didn't hear about that one...makes my stomach hurt.
steve
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hi:
I don't know if you have resolved this problem, however, I would go to Lowe's or Home Depot and purchase about 3 feet of clear vinyl hose, small enough to fit through the spark plug hole, and I would duct tape the other end to your vacuum cleaner hose. This will create enough suction, that when you rotate the hose inside of your cylinder, it will suck up the pencil.
Good luck with this unfortunate situation. Let us know how you resolved it.
P.S. I would not start the car with a foreign object in the cylinder.
--
If it needs to be maintained, repaired or replaced on a 1990 240, I've probably done it. '90 240DL, 310,300 miles, will she make it to 400K ?? >>You haven't really worked on a car until you draw blood<< :-}
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Exactly how big a piece of pencil is in there?...and is it the pointy end or the eraser end? Knowing this will help get a useful solution.
--
Bob: son's XC70, dtr's '94-940, my 81GL, 83-DL, 89-745(V8) and 98-S90. Also 77-MGB and some old motorcycles.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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It's the eraser end, probably about an inch long.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Inch long with the eraser ferrule - running the engine is probably not a good idea.
If the other ideas don't work, here's what I would try. Remove all the sparkplugs to relieve the compression.
Insert the small end of a funnel into the #1 sparkplug hole. Then use the shop vac in the large end of the funnel and try and suck out the pencil piece.
You may have to rotate the engine a bit to open a valve so that air can get into the area you are vacuuming. Use a large socket with a ratchet or breaker bar on the crankshaft nut - turn it slowly, don't force it. If it doesn't want to move, turn it in the opposite direction. Remove the funnel when turning the engine.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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OK, then the metal sleeve that joins the eraser to the wood body is sitting on top of the piston in there.
I dropped a tiny piece of wire - the clip that secures the wiring plug to an injector - in the intake of my 83, and when I started the engine the knocking noise was brutal...LOUD. I only ran it for a few seconds before shutting down and removing the cylinder head, but the piston top and the matching squish area (VERY tight clearance) of the head were dimpled up pretty good.
I suggest that you try some way of getting that object out...there have been good suggestions already. If it was just wood and a bit of the graphite core, maybe it could be chewed up and blown out by running the engine, although with that size of object it would be really lucky to get it all past the exhaust valve. With a piece of metal in there, I believe the risk of serious damage is too great.
--
Bob: son's XC70, dtr's '94-940, my 81GL, 83-DL, 89-745(V8) and 98-S90. Also 77-MGB and some old motorcycles.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Lets see....
We're talking about a standard lead pencil?
Wood wrapped around a piece of graphite?
No metal involved?
If so, just finish the work that you're doing, put the plug back in the engine and fire it up.
That's what I would do, and not worry a second about damaging the engine.
It will take about 3 revolutions of the engine and the remants of the pencil will be in the exhaust pipe.
just my opinion
hope this helps
steve
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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If it is just the lead/graphite end of a pencil, just install the spark plug and fire it up. Rev it up a bit when it catches, and the piece will be blown out. It is NOT a big deal. Don't overthink it, or worry about it.
At worst the piece MIGHT bridge the spark plug gap and cause a misfire, but I doubt it. Even if it does, pull the plug and there it will be.
I've seen much larger bits go through engines quite happily.
Rhys
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Rhys is right it's not a big deal.
On my 90 240, I was cleaning the brass connector on the intake manifold with a paper clip and it fell in. I must have lost my mind as I drove the car afterwards. Removed the valve cover and couldn't find it. For a short time later there was an occasional clicking sound which eventually went away. Maybe it got stuck in the valve spring or something. It must have finally found its way into the exhaust.
P.S.
The engine ran just fine and I drove it for another year or two before I sold the car last year. I wasn't going to spend any serious money trying to find it as the car had about 300k on it at the time....
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Grabbers:
http://www.amazon.com/Eclipse-900-094-Pronged-Parts-Grabber/dp/B002PIBWM0
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1024&bih=603&q=claw+grabber&gs_upl=11793l12843l0l14536l4l4l0l0l0l1l272l960l0.1.3l4l0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1723357736555437291&sa=X&ei=poJ-ToH1CsaBsgLqsvBJ&ved=0CEsQ8wIwAQ
Google "claw grabbers" and take your pick.
Bob
66S
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I just couldnt leave this one alone- (as far as the links)
Try>> http://tinyurl.com/#terms
It does this:
http://www.amazon.com/Eclipse-900-094-Pronged-Parts-Grabber/dp/B002PIBWM0
Turns the above into this:
http://tinyurl.com/3kcpfe2
AND
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&biw=1024&bih=603&q=claw+grabber&gs_upl=11793l12843l0l14536l4l4l0l0l0l1l272l960l0.1.3l4l0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1723357736555437291&sa=X&ei=poJ-ToH1CsaBsgLqsvBJ&ved=0CEsQ8wIwAQ
turns that above into this:
http://tinyurl.com/3tx8hw2
AND ITS FREE!!!!!
But, good luck with gettng to that pencil-looks like those "grabbers" might do it. A thought--use a grabber that has those sort of "tines" on the end-long and u grab stuff--put a piece of freshly chewed gum on it firmly and see if that pencil end might stick to it? Just a thought.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Just a part of a wood pencil? The lead end? It wouldn't matter.
With that thought put something very sticky on the end of aluminum or copper wire long enough so that it too won't fall in and soft enough so it won't break off. Use duct tape or something more sticky. Ok, the pencil got stuck on something sticky but now you can't angle it out of the spark plug hole.
I don't think I am going out on a limb but this is what I am thinking. All the valves close using springs, not the cam therefore I doubt you can damage any of the valves. A pencil is soft as compared to the engine. If you start the engine, with or without the spark plug in, the pencil will break apart by banging around in the cylinder or get busted up by most likely the exhaust valve, blow out of the exhaust valve into the cat then burn up with few debris blowing out the tail pipe leaving tiny parts scattered on the earth kind of like the NASA satellite that fell to earth.
I cannot see any damage to the engine but it is not my car were are discussing. After two or three hours of trying to remove the pencil end I would be going for the key.
When I have to check for TDC I use a thick strand of copper from power wiring.
Tom
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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That's what a guy at the parts store said -- that it would just chew it up and spit it out. But I'm not ready to *try* that yet!
I can't seem to find any place to buy long, thin, curved tweezers. Anybody know, other than waiting for Amazon to ship them? Radio Shack, parts stores, Tractor Supply -- no luck....
Guess I should have held the pencil up straight!
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Sorry about that - I've done this dozens of times, never had an issue.
How about a shop vac?
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I forgot which car, maybe an old '65 Mercury, that would build up so much carbon that chunks would break off and once a year a chunk would bend the spark plug electrode. Carbon chunks are much harder than pencils pieces.
Harbor freight may have long tweezers or try a hemostat at a drug store if you can find one skinny enough.
Tom
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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insert the rope into through the open spark plug hole and move it around gently hoping the pencil remains will adhere to the sticky line
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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No. Did you actually insert it erase first as instructed? If so, how much broke off? If it is small, use a magnetic pick-up tool (long flexy arm with a magnet on the end) to grab the feral to the eraser. Use long tweezers, ect to grab the piece and remove it from the spark plug hole.
Assuming you did not put it in eraser first, get the same type pick-up tool but with the three arms deployed by a plunger on the end.
Shit happens, step back, relax have a beverage (tea, beer, absinthe) and relax. A solution will come to you.
Mike
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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If the #1 cylinder is close to TDC then the broken pencil bit should be within reach of the spark plug hole with some creative exploration.
If the #1 cylinder is lower I guess you could rotate the motor to get things closer. Big piece of pencil shouldn't get caught in space between piston and cylinder. If it is a small piece I'd try to reach for it somehow before rotating motor.
Not easy to get for sure but not impossible.
I guess a worse case scenario would be pulling the head versus junking the car... But hopefully it won't come to that.
Good luck.
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