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swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

posted by  transit wind on  Wed Dec 7 14:35 CST 2011
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last visit: Fri Aug 15 22:40 CST 2014
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83 245 M46 -All rear bushings have been replaced except the track rod bushings. New springs and shocks. New U-joints on the driveshaft. All engine/trans mounts are good.

I've been reading the archives about this knock and play sound in my rear axle on take off or when applying the gas after coasting. After putting the rear of the car on jacks and turning the wheels I can tell that its got something to do with the rear axle. I don't seem to get the play in the wheel like you would on the front. I can't move them when checking play at 12/6 or 3/9. When I turn the rear drivers wheel it sounds not right with the wheel in the air.

Can a rear wheel bearing cause a knocking sound with the feeling of some play at take off?

Can I just swap out the hub from a parts car with the same rear axle. I'm certain the 86 parts car has the same axle. Does the hub have the bearing contained inside of it. Can I swap hubs without replacing the bearings? Looking for a quick way with minimal cost to see if the bearings are the issue or if the rear axle is going to need replacing.

Thanks







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    swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

    posted by  vvpete on  Thu Dec 8 12:00 CST 2011
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    There is a big tolerance in the axial play for the rear, like 1/32-1/16 inch, IIRC, so it can move in/out a lot and still be OK.
    If the bearings wear, there is a spacer that can wear which adds to the axial play. These spacers are replaced when you replace the bearings and seals.
    If the noise is heard when rotating the wheel, but not from side to side movement of the axles, then it could be the pinion gear and differential gears. When checking the axial play with a dial indicator, it would be a good idea to measure the pinion gear play, which can usually be fixed with the proper spacer.

    Just a note that if you decide to remove the axles and replace them with good used one's (I personally would get new bearings and seals and use the old axles) Don't mix the right side and left side axles either from the doner car or your car. The shafts take a set in the metal molecular orientation over time in the direction that they are rotated for the years they are in use, and putting them in opposite directions can crack the axles.








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    swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

    uid 4846's pic
    posted by  JohnMc on  Wed Dec 7 16:01 CST 2011
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    last visit: Thu Oct 23 07:42 CST 2014
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    I doubt the noise you're hearing is from a loose wheel bearing, those usually make nice deep rumbly sounds, not clunks.

    The bearing is pressed onto the shaft, and the outer housing secures it to the end of the axle housing. You take off the caliper, rotor, then reach in through the hole in the hub flange to take off the 4 bolts (I think you have to take off the parking brake shoes too). Then the axle with outer housing and bearing attached slides on out.
    --
    '63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)








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      swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

      posted by  transit wind on  Wed Dec 7 20:42 CST 2011
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      last visit: Fri Aug 15 22:40 CST 2014
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      I rechecked the rear wheels tonight. If I have it jacked off the ground one side at a time I can pull straight out and push back in slightly with the knocking sound. Actually it sounds like the front axle when the hub nut is not on tight enough. Both sides react the same way.

      When I turn the wheel while off the ground it sounds slightly like slow idling motor cycle of sorts. The little putt putt putt sound. I can turn the tire/wheel about 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch before it makes the sound too. Its not a metal on metal knock sound but more bass sounding not sharp like when something is loose. I really want it to be the bearings since the only other option is replacing the rear axle. But I don't want to do the job and find out I still have to replace the rear axle.

      If I pull the hub out of a parts car then I could just swap it without having to pull the bearing races or making it a difficult job?








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        swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

        uid 4846's pic
        posted by  JohnMc on  Thu Dec 8 08:12 CST 2011
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        last visit: Thu Oct 23 07:42 CST 2014
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        Yes, you could just take one axle out, and slide the other in and secure it with the 4 bolts. The bearing is pressed onto the axle shaft, and stays with it when you take it out.

        Putting a new bearing on an axle shaft is hard - you need a press, but just swapping axle shafts - easy.

        I had to pull both axle shafts on mine to put in a locking diff a year or two ago. There's just enough play in the hard lines to the claiper that you can unbolt the cliper, and *GENTLY* pull it off the rotor and secure it just out of the way.
        --
        '63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 (now w/16V turbo)








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          swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

          uid 27's pic
          posted by  Art Benstein on  Thu Dec 8 09:19 CST 2011
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          last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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          Yes, John your memory seems to be in superb working order. I couldn't remember much at all about pulling the rear axles until looking at the photos I took. One thing I remember is the axial play (doesn't that mean the in/out slop?) is considerably more than what you shoot for in front axles, using the conical bearings. Loosely nutting the rotor on the hub backward gives plenty of grip to pull the axles from the detents in the pumpkin. No need for slide hammers.\

          The real PIA is the parking brake actuator. It is worthy of careful study when taking it apart. If not, I have a slew of pics on that subject.






          --
          Art Benstein near Baltimore

          Do Lipton Tea employees take coffee breaks?








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            swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

            posted by  transit wind on  Fri Dec 9 17:15 CST 2011
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            last visit: Fri Aug 15 22:40 CST 2014
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            In the photos you have the race on the bearing. I can barely see the bearing rollers in the top image as you pulled it out of the axle. I just pulled mine out of the parts car and saw just the rollers without the outer race. I'm guessing the race you pulled out later and placed it on the bearing.

            Pulling the hub in and out to test the bearings caused one of them to suddenly sound like a bad bearing. So I'll be just swapping the hub and shaft from the donor to buy me some time. Maybe I'll just get a mechanic to press some bearings onto the shafts that I take out and then I'll be able to return them to the same axle.

            Is it normal for axle oil to get into the bearing area. My bearing from the parts car had gear oil all over it. I'll be cleaning it up and repacking it before installation.








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              swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

              uid 27's pic
              posted by  Art Benstein on  Fri Dec 9 19:30 CST 2011
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              last visit: Fri Oct 17 20:10 CST 2014
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              Is it normal for axle oil to get into the bearing area. My bearing from the parts car had gear oil all over it. I'll be cleaning it up and repacking it before installation.

              Yeah, and doesn't that stuff stink?? I lowered one end a bit when changing the shock, and quickly decided to put a plug in it.



              The outer race sorta fell out. Never came loose from the inner on either side. This is the only pair I've had out, so I don't know if it is atypical.




              --
              Art Benstein near Baltimore

              A dentist and a manicurist fought tooth and nail.








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                swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

                posted by  Volvo From Heck on  Fri Dec 9 23:12 CST 2011
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                last visit: Mon Oct 13 20:56 CST 2014
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                "Is it normal for axle oil to get into the bearing area. My bearing from the parts car had gear oil all over it. I'll be cleaning it up and repacking it before installation."
                The inner seal is supposed to keep the gear oil from the bearing which is lubricated with grease--be sure to change that inner seal located a couple of inches inside the axle tube. Here's where a small slide hammer w/hook comes in handy.
                Sometime the bearing race will stay with the axle--sometimes it doesn't.
                Art--I noticed in your photo of the axle removal the hanging backing plate. Maybe you had that loose for a particular reason but the axle will come out with the backing plate in place. The earliest 140's had a different bearing and the backing plate hole was smaller-- stayed with the axle. You don't know the meaning of "awkward" till you've tried pressing a bearing with the plate hanging on--one reason why I put a later 140 diff in my '69. -- Dave








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                  swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

                  posted by  transit wind on  Sat Dec 10 02:02 CST 2011
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                  last visit: Fri Aug 15 22:40 CST 2014
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                  Well it took forever to get the rotor off the car. The car I thought had the bad bearing (83 245). The parts car's rotor came right off. It took me over an hour to get this rotor off and I scarred it in the process which sucks because it was a nice Volvo newish rotor that came with the car.

                  The bearing in the car I thought was going bad actually looked good. I believe that sound I was getting was actually the emergency brake dragging on the rotor a bit. Now I can't seem to get the rotor back on. The brake shoes are sticking out too far. The reassembly of the emergency brake pads where a pain until I figured out a trick. But before I go through that I'm wondering why my brake pads are not fitting right. I know it had to be an issue before I removed the rotor and pads and now its still an issue on assembly.



                  My trick for the emergency brake pads. The thinner spring close to the wire mechanism is the real problem when trying to get it all back together. After attempting to stretch it to the bottom elongated hole and failing repeatedly I found a solution that worked in two tries. I hooked it on the bottom hole and had the bottom pad's notch off the cable mechanism which made the distance less to stretch the spring.
                  I used a 45 degreed angled end mechanics pick to pull the spring and then caught the pick's end into the hole I was trying to get the spring into. I then twisted the pick in a particular way so the end of the spring found its way into the hole. The spring had one end that had more hook on the end. I inserted that one into the bottom first so the second end was easier. Then its easier to muscle the shoe into place onto the cable mechanism. I will no longer fear emergency brake pads.

                  I was also able to swap the shafts/hubs back and forth for the intent on seeing if there was any difference in play or sound. They where really close to the same. Although the two rear axles are 3 years a part but look the same on the outside the shafts where slightly different in design. The important stuff where the same but still interesting. Also looked into the axle and could see some rust on the top inside of the tube.








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            swapping out hub and shaft assembly - rear axle 200 1983

            posted by  transit wind on  Thu Dec 8 11:40 CST 2011
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            last visit: Fri Aug 15 22:40 CST 2014
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            Huge help guys. Pics will help me a ton. I'm wondering if maybe the 4 bolts are loose. That would be nice. But it looks like I'l be pulling at least one side and swapping it to gauge the results. If it fixes the problem I'm going to be feeling much better about this car.







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