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Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

The car is my 1980 245DL B21F K-jet M46 with just under 301k miles. This has been going on for almost a year, here's a summary of the facts/observations:

1) If it's raining or has been raining/snowing, the car will crank and crank but will not start or even give a hint of combustion occurring at all.
2) The longer the car sits, the less likely it is to start when damp.
3) The car starts and runs perfectly when dry
4) If the car was driven recently (within five or so days) and it's damp, it will start and run fine, then after a mile or so will misfire and then lose all engine power - there is no electrical shut down, just stops responding to the gas pedal and eventually stalls. In this case, it may restart and repeat the cycle after a lot of cranking.
5) When attempting to start, I hear the main fuel pump for a second each time when the key goes to run position from start position.
6) After a lot of cranking (when damp), there's sometimes eventually a backfire
6) The ignition system - coil, plug wires, plugs, cap, rotor - were all replaced with no change. Wiring connections at the coil were fixed too. Main engine harness was replaced with an improved OEM harness a while back. Recent O2 sensor.

I'm guessing something intermittent with the supply of fuel, but since I hear the pump after cranking it seems like it's downstream of the pump. Any ideas? Thanks for any clues or diagnostic suggestions -

Zack
1980 245DL M46 300k
Sold: 85 744TD M46 251k, 88 745T M46 249k, 89 245DL M47 149k








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    Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

    Damp stalling or no starts are usually related to bad / cheap / old distributor cap and rotor or plug wires. Quality parts are the only way to go here.
    Dan








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      Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

      Agreed, which is why after this first started happening I replaced the cap and rotor with OEM/Bosch parts and the wires with proper Bougicord wires. They did not affect the occurrence of the symptoms.








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        Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

        Then that area should be fine. Muskox37 may have an idea for you, make sure the connections at the distributor are good, maybe a shot of contact cleaner.

        Next time it stalls and won't start check for spark. You might try to locate a complete use distributor to swap in.
        Dan








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    the impulse sender 200 1980

    If you have a breakerless ignition system like my 1982 B23E, a last resort might be to check out the impulse sender which is located in the distributor beneath the dust shield and the trigger wheel. My car would not start after a brief stop for shopping, etc. After about half an hour it would then start and run fine. It took me a couple of tow jobs to discover this little feature of the snag. I finally got it to stop in midstream nearby the local Volvo garage and he brought along a distributor and he determined that it was at the heart of the problem.

    The symptoms seem to be a little different to what you are experiencing given that dampness did not seem to add to my woes at the time. I think the impulse sender, which is a copper coil in essence, must have been breaking and then making again when the car cooled off. I only throw this out to you as a potential problem which could be written off if you were able to get hold of another distributor for a while. If you have a friendly Volvo garage nearby perhaps you could borrow one for a while.

    The sender is fairly expensive so it would not be viable to just change it out on spec.

    My two bits worth.

    Bob








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    Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1981

    Eliminate the easy to test stuff first. Is there a regular spark at the plug gap when cranking?








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      YES!!! Check the basics!!! Don’t dwell on what you’ve changed, it means nothing... 200 1981

      Check for spark first and post back.

      Spray the engine with the garden hose, make sure that you have a problem to check for.



      Goatman








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        YES!!! Check the basics!!! Don’t dwell on what you’ve changed, it means nothing... 200 1980

        I agree 100% in principle - many things are simple when someone else is available for tasks that require two people, such as checking for spark while cranking, or am I missing something obvious about it being a one-man job? Having someone here to help is not going to happen any time soon for me.

        Instead of getting stuck at the top of the diagnostic chain due to lacking a helper, I'm trying to identify other possible failure modes. So assume for a minute there's no spark when damp since fuel and air are likely present (but it's not due to coil/cap/rotor/plug wires).

        Checked the fuse panel and it's dry and free of corrosion, can hear the frequency valve buzzing when the engine is running but didn't catch it when it stalled.

        Today (damp but not raining/snowing for the past several hours) it started fine but then lost power after a minute or so - happened 3 times. Then I tried reseating the electrical connection at the impulse generator on the distributor (it's the original 32 year old distributor) - so far, so good, starts and runs and stays running. Will try again on the next wet day to verify, might just be a coincidence.

        Zack
        1980 245DL M46 300k








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          YES!!! Check the basics!!! Don’t dwell on what you’ve changed, it means nothing... 200 1980

          Hi,


          Thank you for asking. Yes, you can use the remote starter connection at the firewall to start the engine. It’s not hard to make up a switch with two alligator clips.

          Again, SOAK the engine bay and make sure that you don’t have a problem!!! Why the hell wait for a snowstorm?


          Goatman








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    Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

    Check for dampness under the distributor cap. Try WD40 (Water Displacement #40) to dry it.
    --
    1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb but electronic ignition and M46 trans in Brampton, Ont.








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      Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

      Thanks - That was one of my first thoughts since the car has had problems with hard starting and misfires when damp in the past - but in those cases, the car would eventually start and run poorly (misfiring and generally running rough at low RPM) until warmed up and then would run fine. Replacing the cap/rotor solved that issue but not this one, and it never exhibited a sudden loss of power after warming up as is the case now.








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    Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

    "I'm guessing something intermittent with the supply of fuel, but since I hear the pump after cranking it seems like it's downstream of the pump."

    Realistically, there is nothing that can be intermittent downstream of the pump in a K-Jet.

    +1 for the fuses and add the ignition switch electrical portion. I particular since water tends to leak onto the fuses.

    If you have an ignition amplifier/power stage that would be my second guess. It should not effected by humidity, though.

    Mike








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    Stumped - no start/stall when damp 200 1980

    Have you removed and cleaned all the fuses in the fuse panel?

    Can you hear the frequency valve buzz, that is in front of the brake booster, during cranking and just after?

    Phil







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