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Sorry for the long post....
Have had some family health issues the last few months (including me) and have racked up some nice bills. Having waiting longer than normal to work on the cars, just brought our 1995 960 with 212k on the clock to our trusted mechanic. $3k in estimates later we are debating whether or not to keep it. I used to do a lot of work myself but am now semi-disabled (can't lay on my back for more than a few minutes, lifting and bending are difficult.)
List of items that should be fixed/replaced:
- both front strut assemblies (one is broken)
- all ball joints
- power steering pump leaking
- brake lines, slow leak
- sway bar & links
- head/valve cover gasket leaking
- oil cooler gaskets
- parking brake
- ABS sensor
- new battery
Good news is that these are all wear items and nothing major is going on, engine, tranny is fine. We just put about $1600 into the car last summer (ac, rear main engine seal, rear drive shaft seal, etc.) Have had the car since 110k so we know the history.
The bank will loan us money to get another used car but not to fix the one we have.
Would be looking at getting a 99,00,01 S80 instead.
Is it time to let our great 960 go?
Thanks in advance!
Mike
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95 964, 212k and counting
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Thank you for the comments.
Here in central MN we have a place called Standberg Auto over in Wisconsin. Huge inventory of used older model volvo parts.
We are going to do minimum fixes and keep the car for now. Hopefully not much else can go wrong since most big wear items have been replaced in the last few years. I have some buddies that will come over this spring and assist with the front end parts (sitting down in front of the wheel is ok just can't lift much.) I don't feel comfortable doing struts (no spring compressor and might be heavy/awkward to get out.) They will be done the shop this week.
It's the valve cover gasket leaking and not the head gasket. Seems like a pretty straight-forward job from reading the FAQ. Only experience with replacing head/valve gaskets is from fixing up old farm tractors. We will wait on this.
Yeah I will get a battery here soon, have had such a mild winter in MN so far that it hasn't been necessary. It was -17 air temp this morning so it's time. :)
Brakes will get fixed and we will try Lucas in the power steering.
We have been driving RWD Volvo's since the mid 80's 240,740,940 x 2, 960 x 2. All were driven to at least 275k. Even with MN winters never had much of an issue with traction using good sets of winter tires.
Never even considered a FWD Volvo. Kids will be driving in a year or two so thinking now we hold on to the 960 for my daily driver and get them a 98 S70 when the time comes. Are any of the first gen s70/v70's ok (looks like 97-00) or is there something in particular good about the 98's? XC's ok? Ideally I would like to have a 96,97,98 960/S90, mostly to get the seat heater buttons off the tray by the parking brake and the OBD-II reader.
The only reason we were thinking S80 was for possible enhanced safety and better mpg. Good points about having a car payment AND repairs! Neighbor has a '04 S80 that he is happy with, 140k and gets 29mpg freeway. We will see if the pundits are right about $5 gas later this year. Never gotten over 22mpg with either of the 960's we have had. Average is 19.
Thanks again, great board as usual!
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95 964, 212k and counting
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The consensus seems to be that the 94-97 850's and the 98 C/S/V70's are the best choice among the FWD cars as they have simpler and less troublesome electronics than the newer cars. They are a better bet than the S80. The 1999 and 2000's are good cars too, but they have an electronic throttle module that can be troublesome. Stay away from the 2001 and 2002 S60's and V70's (trannies). 2003 and newer are good cars.
Regarding gas mileage, they should all get low 20's in town and upper 20's to low 30's on the highway. My 95 850 auto wagon gets 20-22 around town and 28-30 on the highway depending upon the season. My 93 850 did the same. For comparision's sake, my auto 240 did the same in town but usually 24-26 on the highway.
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I live in the SW side of the Twin Cities. Keep your 960 running, it is a nice car.
I would stay away from most S80's as they were a test mule for the new electronics and tended to fall apart too soon. It is a nice car, but maintance is a real headache.
As for kids getting to driving age, consider an 1994-1997 850 or a 1998 S70. A little harder to maintain than RWD cars because the engine bay is tight, but better safety features. New drivers need ABS.
But, your kids should also learn how to fix their own cars, the mechanics around here just charge too much. Brakes are simple, oil changes are simple, timing belts a little more involved, but still doable.
Be prepared to buy a code reader if you buy a newer car, they come in handy.
Klaus
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There is no present time, just the past and future
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Conventional wisdom is that the 1999-2002 Volvos should be avoided. I've read all sort of transmission nightmare stories with the 01-02 V70s (3 of 4 fail prematurely), and complaints about problematic electronic throttles on the 99-00 cars, and general electrical problems on the other models of that period.
This is a tough position that you are in. I've been there myself. It's a sad situation that you can get a loan to buy something "new" but not to repair something that you already own. I've found that fixing what you've got is almost always less expensive than taking on a new load of problems.
I do almost all my own repair work. Buying parts online and installing them myself has allowed me to keep my 940 going, and is the only reason I can afford to own a C70. If you can do parts replacement work yourself, then I'd see no reason to toss this car, *if* the engine and gearbox are still good.
Understand the safety concerns. You'd get the improved safety by going with something built on the P80 (850/70 -series) chassis also.
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I bought a new 1999 Volvo S80 T-6. The worst and most disappointing car that I have ever owned. I think that it spent more time at the dealer’s service center than it did in my garage. Dumped it before the warranty ran out for a big loss. Maybe the later ones were better, but I wouldn’t put my money in one of them.
The only good thing that came out of the S80 was a good relationship with the service department who are very happy to work on my 1988 244 GL when it needs something that I can’t do.
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I wouldn't put much money in that 960 - but I would drive it until it blows up big time, while keeping it safe for the road.
If one strut is broken, fix that one.
Have an alignment shop show you the play in the ball joints. They don't all wear at the same rate. Fix the bad ones, if any.
Unless the P/S pump leak spots the driveway, ignore it.
Brakes don't have slow leaks. They either leak a great deal, or not at all.
Ignore the links.
No spotting from the engine leaks? Ignore them too. Cars leak oil.
It's an auto - you don't really need a parking brake if you stay on the level.
I don't like ABS.
Buy a battery.
And like Porkface said, stay the hell away from the newer ones like the S80.
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I generally agree with the above, but want to add that anyone who tells you that you need to replace the worn out sway bar needs to be run away from, fast.
And same with the brakes, 'slow leak'. BS.
'Broken strut'? um, you couldn't drive the car.
That list of repairs, to me, is from someone who needs to make a house payment, and is not realistic. I'd strongly urge getting not only a second opinion, but one from someone who Shows you this part and that and where they need work, now.
Bank loan; I do no interest/low fee credit card balance transfers, which are much cheaper than a bank loan. I just 'borrowed' 8k for a year, for $240.
Just don't make an error on the due dates.
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In my opinion it would be far cheaper to repair the vehicle you have. Some of the items on your list can be delayed so you can spread the cost out.
DEWFPO
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1998 S90 086,388 and 1995 964 154,100
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absolutely, positively, do not buy an s80. you'll be in deeper than you are now. and almost everything that goes wrong on ANY 99-up volvo needs a software download. a nightmare to do, even if you're a dealer. walk before buying an s80, unless it's new. then it's under warranty and you get a loaner. good luck, chuck.
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Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Hopefully, things will improve shortly.
As I see it, it's a conflict between the devil you know and the one you don't know. Any "new" used car is going to require something. If something on the new car craps out, you're in a deeper hole because you owe the bank money AND you've got to come up with cash to fix the new problem.
I've had great luck with my independent tire shop when it comes to suspension work. They're happy to install my parts for a reasonable fee. Maybe that works for your struts, ball joints, sway bar and parking brake. Maybe even the abs sensor while they're in there.
Try Lucas power steering stop leak. It works wonders for my Volvos and Range Rovers.
Is it the head gasket (no so good) or valve cover gasket (no big deal) that's leaking?
A battery is $75. A used car will need a new battery
What's leaking on the brakes? Master cylinder, calipers, rubber lines? Replacement parts are pretty cheap and, once again, your tire shop might be able to help you out. FIX THE BRAKES FIRST!!
I've got a great local source (Alpharetta, Ga) for used Volvo parts. Let me know if you want the name.
Hope I haven't rambled too much. Just trying to help.
Also, if you've got a child who's old enough, now's a great time to teach him or her a few basics on survival and car repair!
Good luck!!
Phil C
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I agree. Fix the safety issues first. You could do a little bit at a time. Hey, no one is requiring you to do all the work at once...:) Brakes first, then ball joints, struts and so on. If the gaskets aren't leaking too badly they can probably wait for awhile. Sway bar links can wait too.
I fixed the leak on my 850's steering rack seals by changing the PS fluid to synthetic. I did this myself using the turkey baster method. Think this is detailed in the 700/900 FAQ, briefly you withdraw the existing fluid with a baster and refill with synthetic. Doing this over the course of 3-4 days straight should essentially change all the fluid. 850's require ATF, but check your owners manual before starting. Or you could add Lucas (as suggested). Either method might save your PS pump. Worth a try.
If you decide to buy an S80 stay away from the early ones. They have a bad reliability reputation. I'd go 2002 or newer. BTW, I don't know if you would consider them, but 96-97 850's and 98 S/V70's are reliable, excellent cars and can be bought very reasonably.
Hope your luck changes soon!
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