Well it's been awhile. Hoping someone will be able to help me solve this one. When these old girls are well maintained and running good they just haul the mail day after day, until one day.....time catches up and:
So I'm taking the family camping on Hontoon Island near Deland FL, about 100 miles up I-95 and west on 44 through the city. Pack the car to the gills w/ camping gear. Two kids in the back seat, wife riding shotgun, canoe (stuffed w/ life jackets, paddles, beach chairs) on top. After a slow acceleration she (the car), runs like a champ all the way up I-95, probably 75-82 mph most of the way, just cruising in her grove, no sweat, then stop and go almost through down town Deland and then - car hesitates on acceleration after a stop light. Does it again half way to the next one. Then at the next green light it just dies right in the middle of the intersection, no rough running, just like the battery was stone dead. Push into parking lot, pop hood, got headlights, don't see anything obvious. Crank up car, starts right up, after a minute then dies. Repeat. Wait awhile, call tow truck, somebody stops buy to offer help. Crank up car, runs fine, but then I notice a bunch of smoke or something coming out of the tail pipe. Check oil - clean, just changed it. Coolant is clean only has a slight pst when I take the cap off, dont' see anything there. No vacuum hoses loose. Tried wiggling the CPS wire to see if that helped or hurt - nope. It's too far to try to limp back home so we have the car towed $50 + 3 clams/mile; it's getting dark, I've got 2 hungry kids + the Mrs. So we drive across the street to Dobros Chicago Pizza, if you're going to break down, try to pick a place with a delicious pizza place.....ended up getting home by 11.
So last time I blew a head gasket (different brick) it ran really really bad, but with the smoke or whatever coming out of the tail pipe it's pretty high up on my list, maybe a small leak just starting. Other possible culprits - cat? MAS? Sorry this is long but maybe the details will help solve this mystery. Thanks in advance BB for you help and feedback. JP

White "smoke" or black?

Does it smell like oil, raw gas or that sweet smell of antifreeze?

Kinda hard to ascertain from your post, but does it run now?


Rich

Just a idea.
Pull the hose off of the fuel presure regulator and see if there is any gasoline in the hose.

steve

Re: "After a slow acceleration. . ."

You should check the catalytic converter. It could be plugged.

I take it, with the CPS, it's lh2.4.
I'm liking the CPS, myself. What you describe is just like what happened to mine, some hesitation, some more, then quit dead dead dead. Wiggling the wire could only make it worse, not better.
Go through Bruce's start/run for 7/9 cars, take out what's incorrect; maybe there's a clue there.

Sounds similar to when the head gasket went on my 82 this last summer, it started running rough at first. Then lots of whiteish grey smoke, I checked the oil and coolant immediately. All looked fine, so I drove home. Things were still running wierd so I made plans to drop it off at my mechanics, while on the way there the temp gauge spiked almost to the red. Pulled over right away, no coolant in the expansion tank at all and nothing but chocolate milk in the oil pan. Head gasket totally blown, luckily the head wasn't warped and all is back to normal.

Could be the fuse or its holder located by the battery, if it is the right year car.

Do you carry a spare fuel pump/system relay?

Check the battery cables at the battery and the ground point on engine and frame. Check the connections down by the starter since you mentioned battery was stone dead at some point. Need to fill us in on that one.

Check all the fuses in the fuse panel for looseness or corrosion.

Pull each injector clip and replace it a couple times each. Sometimes it cleans the contacts in the clips and on the injector. This is more for an intermittent miss or power loss.

Look under the manifold for any wires that might be bare of insulation going to any sensors in the head.

That is all I can come with as a quick “on the road scan” for trouble.
Phil

What color is the "smoke or whatever"? Year of car? Miles? Any recent work done?

--
240 drivers & parts cars - Ohio

Sounds like an Air mass meter with the smoke actually being from a very rich running engine. Do you know how to test the AMM?

Thanks for the replies:
'66: In the past when I had a bad CPS (frayed insulation) I could wiggle the wire to either help or hurt the way the car ran - it was a dead giveaway.
Phil: I do carry a spare FPR, but didn't think to check for the "buzz" when I turned the key on - I guess I was somewhat bamboozeled. The car died like it had a dead battery, but the battery is fine and I don't really suspect the alternator.
jfh: Sorry forgot some important details! It's a 93 240 autotranny 199k almost ready for another timing belt, etc etc. Also I think the smoke was white/grey but I cant really say for sure it was getting dark and I shut the car off as soon as I saw it.
transit: Is testing an AMM in bently? I've got that but if you can summarize please do so. Speaking of AMM that's jumped up to the top of my list:
Yesterday I did a compression test: 1-4:185,193,188,200, then with three squirts of engine oil:204,214,212,215. Starts and runs like a champ, drove around a little to warm up the car prior to the test. Battery at 12.5 rest, charging at 13V. Oil clean, coolant clean, tranny fluid pink, no ignition system codes.
What about Cat? Thanks I'm going for a short test drive, will check back in a few hours.

There are AMM tests in archives here and Bentley (I think). Quick AMM test is to unplug. I've had no-starts that start (not easily) w/ AMM unplugged, run roughly at low speeds but are drivable - you just have to go into neutral and keep the revs up if you have to stop.

Check the power amplifier.

I've had stall-restart-run-stall... conditions that were a clogged fuel filter and a fuel pump overheating and stopping.

Some folks here say a fuel filter is binary: good/ not-good. That isn't my experience at all w/ 240s, other cars, diesels, ....
--
240 drivers & parts cars - Ohio

Swap in a good power stage / ignition amplifier, these are know to heat up and fail then work fine when cooled off. Smoke is a mystery, white sounds like water.
Dan

OK so we have us a real sherlock holmes mystery here. Drove fine yesterday and took her to work today, about 6 miles stop and go and 12 miles I-95. Running like a champ, idles fine, no smoke or hesitation, etc. Also read that testing the AMM is a waste of time (and it seems to be working now anyways). So I guess my plan is to keep the chief suspects on my list (AMM, Ig Amp, FPR, Cat) and if she has another "senior moment" try swapping with a good spare. Fortunatley the Mrs has a twin brick (92) so I can hopefully swap out a suspect part and leave her (the Mrs) stranded....ha ha or at least rule out/in the culprit w/o upfronting alot of $. Until then, no more long distance road trips.... and I'm keeping bentley, a volt meter and some handy tools w/ me. If you have any ideas on what/how to check a car that has no apparent symptoms please let me know. Thanks JP.

Hi John,

With your original stalling problem, and the fact that the car has mysteriously healed itself, you might want to check your in-tank pump via Art Benstein's infamous paperclip trick.

If your in-tank pump is not working and the fuel level gets somewhat low, you will experience hesitation and stalling. Art's writeup is "in the tank".

Good luck.

Marty Wolfson

Proud member of the 300K club

Thanks for the heads up on that Marty, I haven't had a chance to do that yet but will soon. Also read in bently you can take off the filler cap and listen for the motor noise. I love Art's site, sometimes it's just fun to look at stuff there even if it ain't broke yet. However I don't suspect that to be the culprit - I had that happen to me on the way over to FL from TX in a 79. Had to keep the tank above 1/2 full all the way, but it still ran if I got below 1/2 tank, just a little jerky now and then (it was a standard too). Funny - it's was Fri night with a 3/4 full tank that this happened and now it's Wed eve, been through a whole tank and refilled. Maybe I just need to drive up and down the freeway between two local exits for two hours to see if I can get a repeat - wait I'm just down the road from Daytona....

AHA! Killer Bees! Marty I think you may have nailed it!
She ran fine all week, I was the stumped chump. Then had to run down I-95 about 20 miles on a hot winter day 80+ (mph and ambient air temp); then some stop and go driving (send familiar?); as I pull into the driveway (no joke), I hear the engine hesitate, then after a few beats it just dies. Restart, run a few seconds, dies. Checked a few things then on turning the ignition on I heard the main fuel pump doing the angry bee thing. Put a piece of plastic pipe a little ways down the filler tube and couldn't hear anything - maybe the sound of the fuel returning to the tank? When the Mrs came home I checked her (cars) tank - easy to hear the pump motor running with a short length of hose (mine was some 5/8's ID clear plastic). Re-checked mine after it cooled off and then I could hear the motor. So looks like it's time to replace that in tank fuel pump (ya think?), plus the O ring - anything else while I'm rooting around there?. Hope that was it, I'll report back later, PS Bentley 230-6: Hot starting and running problems, increased noise from main fuel pump, reduced top speed, poor performance and engine cut out as a result of vapor lock = faulty fuel transfer pump.

Hi Joe,

I'd still give it a go with a paperclip just to verify.

Remember imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Marty Wolfson

Proud member of the 300K club

Well I think it's fixed. Did a down and back and no troubles. I took the old pump apart - the brushes were the same length, but one of the springs was shot, so it must have been causing the brush to loose contact when hot. I ended up re-using the old O ring, couldn't get the cap on w/ the new one. Also replaced the fuel return hose as I scuffed up the old one a bit disconnecting it. The metal screen filter was also torn at the base so I replaced it (w/ a paper one, darn it, but that's what FCP Groton sent). It was a little tedious trying to stuff all that back in that tiny hole while crouched in the back, knees begging for mercy.....
Thanks to all for you feedback and ideas.
JP

Hi JP,

Just as a followup on replacing the pump. With your in-tank pump all set ready to go, practice sliding it through the bung nut to get some idea how you have to hold the float and assembly for an easy install. A few dry runs and you can expertly slide the unit it without any aggravation.
Marty