Hi. I just took my car to the radiator man, and he told me my problem of the car running up to hot likely was from foam that builds up from antifreeze. Over the past few months, the gauge would go up and down, and I could tap it down, but this time I could not, and the gauge went all the way to orange. I had the thermostat replaced, which didn't make a difference. Also, at beginning of winter, my heat wouldn't get real hot, so I had the heater core replaced, and that didn't make much difference. I still didn't get hot heat. The foam was the most likely culprit, so first he checked with some gauge and saw that I had 100% antifreeze in the car, and actually my system calls for 50/50, which was the first mistake I made. He didn't flush the radiator. He drained out about half or more of the current radiator fluid, then added a remix with water. He added a bottle and a half of antifoam. When I drove there, same problem occurred--it was up to the orange in no time. When I left, the temperature ran below normal, and after driving a while it was right at the halfway mark. My regular mechanic was going to charge me $80 to flush out the radiator, and another shop was going to charge $125. So glad I called the original man back. My bill was $31.80, and that included $12 for the 1-1/2 bottles of the antifoam. YIPPEE!!!! Just thought I'd give you all an update. Thanks so much for all your responses! Susan

Dear Everyone at Brickboard,

I am so thankful to all of you for your responses to my "radiator" (NOT!!!) issue. Being too chicken at this time to work on the car myself (and needing the car daily to go to Maryland for my soon-to-end employment), I took it to the mechanic I know who pretty much only works on Volvos.

Your suggestions were correct about the little piece of wire that was needed and caused the temperature gauge to look like the car's overheating. I am gathering that this wire is what the mechanic called a "jumper harness." In looking at Art's pix, the process was the same. They pulled the instrument cluster and put this "jumper harness on" (or a piece of wire as shown in Art's diagrams). The cost was $106, and if the "jumper harness" is the same thing as that little piece of wire you've all mentioned, then I guess I paid an awful lot for it.

As for posting, I will soon register to be a member of Brickboard (hoping you want novices like me, but we NEED all of you so much!). I find it difficult to read and comprehend all the individual posts, and I so very much want to respond to each one. Please know that I am SO thankful to all of you for your continuing help.

I will soon be taking on the odometer, trip meter, speedometer, interior lights, continuous "light-out" light being on, door locks, wipers being slow (even though the motor was just replaced with a new motor), and all other issues that I face with this car that I love so much.

Before I do so, I will be sure to check the board for related issues and pictures of the jobs, ditch the Chilton manual for a Haynes or Bentley manual as suggested, get a set of necessary tools, and FOR SURE not think an issue is fixed just because it runs for two miles without the gauge going up.

I drove the car to Hunt Valley from Tuesday through Friday, with the gauge perfectly in the middle the whole time.

You all are the best, and I'm sure I'll talk to you all again soon!!!!!!!!

Respectfully,

Susan
Owner of a 1990 240 wagon and 1996 960 sedan
York, PA

There's a lot of churn here but some of the basics still aren't mentioned:

1. Are the belts adjusted correctly?

2. You should eliminate temp-comp board. There are how-to pics here and on Art B's site. Have it done if you can't; or maybe there's someone from this board near you. But you're reacting to a gauge that might be giving a false reading.

3. Did the tech who replaced the thermostat get the correct one and position the vent correctly? I just puled a non-vented one from a 240, presumably a local parts store "The part number is different but this is the exact same thing ..."

4. The foaming thing is new to me. Overheating IME is: loose belts, sludge/scale in the system, bad thermostat, or (rarely) a bad impeller in the water pump.

--
240 drivers & parts cars - Ohio

Hi!

1. The belts are adjusted correctly.

2. I live in York, PA, and Art is the closest one to me (near Baltimore), but my car is in York, and I hesitate to drive it there. I have one garage I go to here (Trone's) that is good for basic things, but when I need Volvo work done by Volvo mechanics, I go to Flickinger's. The gauge might be the culprit, but even when it was erratic before, it never went up to the orange. Near it, but not on it.

3. The person who replaced the thermostat is a former mechanic who thinks he knows it all, so I'm sure he thinks he got the right thing, and he'd freak out on me if I questioned him. I've severed that contact because he snapped at me for not holding something correctly. I can always find someone else to check out the thermostat.

4. The man who mentioned the foam issue has been working on radiators for years, and he's seen foaming issues become worse and worse. I believe he has a valid point. However, I did have 100% antifreeze in there, which was a no-no; that was compliments of the angry mechanic I don't talk to anymore.

If I need to have the gauge worked on, do you know if this would be an expensive repair? I could attempt this myself if it were simple enough. I don't have tools but could get some. I used to work on my cars when I was younger (I put a transmission in a 4-speed Toyota with a Chilton's manual when I was 18, AND it ran!!). I have a Chilton's manual for this car.

Let me know what you think would be the best thing to do. Thanks!

Hi Susan,

It really sounds like the temp board is glitching out. The bypass is what you should do before anything else because that will rule out the other things.

Speaking from experience a lot of independent Volvo mechanics or any typical mechanics for that matter are good at changing out brakes, motor mounts, but when it comes to dainty little electronics they are clueless. Believe me I know, I'll spare the stories.

The guys on here helped me out with the exact same thing on my 92 245 when I was on vacation a couple years back and didn't know if the car was overheating. The gauge would go into the red, not rise at all, stay at normal, etc. etc. etc. Anyways smack the dash and that will tell you-temp. comp. board.

If I were you I wouldn't be afraid to drive it after you give it a smack and it responds. But you need to get this taken care of.

I am in located in Shippensburg, PA. I am handy around the Weller WES51 soldering station and have taken out the cluster on my 90 244 and 92 245 many times. The offer is there if you want it fixed for free-not $100. My wife, dog Sirius and rabbit Albee can keep you company in the 1/2 hour total it will take to get everything out, bypassed and back in.

Either way I hope you get things taken care of,
Travis

You should eliminate the gauge as a problem. Search here on "comp board bypass" and see if you're up to it. There are a couple of methods. I just take a short loop of wire and press it on to the 2 pins. It's not too bad a job. Mostly takes patience.

I'd also want to verify that I had the correct thermostat. If it doesn't have a bleed valve or the valve is at the bottom, you could be trapping air.

You could do the above yourself. You need a large drain pan, screwdriver, 10mm socket (or wrench in a pinch).

Consider getting a Haynes manual. 240s are easy to work on. Folks here seem to prefer the Bentley manual. I have both but use the Haynes more.

The foaming bit is new to me but let's assume the anti-foam is helping.



--
240 drivers & parts cars - Ohio

Hi jfh,

Thanks for all the information. I will check out the info about the comp board, but I plan to drop it off Sunday to have the Volvo mechanic look at it (it's a shop that works mostly on Volvo, and they've worked on it before). The thermostat that was replaced was purchased at Auto Zone, and I don't have a clue if it's the correct one.

Gotta say I was so excited to finally see that gauge at the midway point, yet only a few miles later to be so disappointed. I also thought the post about the "solve" with the antifoam might help others. Who knows, though, maybe it will.

I will post again after I hear what the shop has to say. I'll write them a detailed note about the problem. I was told that a gauge replacement would cost about $100, and I'm not sure if that's a good price or not. It just might be a combination of a gunked-up radiator and a bad gauge.

Thanks again!

Susan

Hello Susan

I've been reading with interest the issues that you have been having with the 240. My best advice to you would be to listen to what Art is recommending rather than to take the car to a "Volvo" mechanic. Some of the best cars that I've owned in recent years were the ones that the Volvo mechanics couldn't fix. There is a wealth of information on this board, but it really works best if you are moderately inclined mechanically and can do some of the repair work yourself rather than take the car to someone that is going to charge you to change parts until they find one that is broken.

About that temperature problem. What Art is suggesting works very well, just rig a bypass on the compensation board, but I have found that in some cases it works just as well to pull the board out and clean the contact surfaces of the four connector pins and sockets. This can be done on the kitchen table in less than an hour with a Phillips screw driver and a pair of needle nose pliers. (my solution several years ago was to install a mechanical gauge in the dash to the right of the instrument cluster and forget about it.)The odometer issue is more than likely the plastic gears turning to mush and stripping, but they are also replaceable.


Enjoy the car, they don't make them like these anymore.

Regards,

Susan, just echoing Art & Klaus: you don't need a gauge. You cut a < 2" strip of wire to bypass the compensator - which dampens the movement of the needle.

"It's so simple a caveman could do it" (one of the few Geico commercials I've liked.)

You probably need to find a mechanic who knows 240s - or is willing to follow suggestions from this board (which may not always be correct but is pretty good).

Klaus: re your comment on registering - the board's been messed up for weeks now, not showing who replies are from on some threads. It often doesn't even show a name after the "someone claiming to be".

Perhaps the boards reached capacity and can't add info to new threads?
--
240 drivers & parts cars - JH, Ohio

Do NOT get the gauges replaced! Just do as Art's slide show says, it is the ONLY fix to get accurate readings from the gauge.
The only tools you will need are a normal sized phillips screwdriver and a small phillips screwdriver, perhaps something to cut the electrical cord.

I suggest taking a picture of the back of the cluster before taking off all of the electrical connections, that will make it much easier to remember which plug goes where.

BTW, if you register on this site, you can get emails from the people who reply to your posts, rather than just checking the Brickboard randomly. You don't need a tricky password, but a ZIP code in the address line would help sometimes.

Klaus
--
There is no present time, just the past and future

"I was told that a gauge replacement would cost about $100,..."

If this is an accurate recollection of what you were told, steer clear of this tech. The problem is not solved by "gauge replacement" and that is knowledge that the most wet-behind-the-ears 240 tech should already have. However, being 3rd hand, this phrase may have undergone some generalization.

Basically, if the gauge moves when you slap the dash above it, you have the same problem every 86-93 240 has, and its cure is what JFH suggested and I have described here: Notes on the Temp Faker - Or That Temp Comp Board
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Do you remember when you were a kid, playing Nintendo and it wouldn't work? You take the cartridge out, blow in it and that would magically fix the problem. Every kid in America did that, but how did we all know how to fix the problem? There was no internet or message boards or FAQ's. We just figured it out. Today's kids are soft.

Hello Susan,

"actually my system calls for 50/50, which was the first mistake I made."

Actually, that's wrong. That was the second mistake you made. The first mistake you made was not checking in on the Brickboard.

Good luck and read the posts on the BB. The DIY guys here are far more knowledgeable about our Volvos than the foamheads you've been talking to.

Marty Wolfson

Snide member of the 300K club

One more thing--in the container that holds coolant on the left side of the car, the foam could clearly be seen on top of the coolant. When some was extracted and shaken, it was very foamy. Just a quick visual way to find out if that could be a problem or not! The man said that in the summer it would be a good idea to flush and fill with 50/50 and 1 bottle of antifoam. Other than that, it's good to add a bottle of the antifoam every 6 to 9 months. Hope this helps to solve someone else's problems with overheating without replacing parts first! :)

Well . . . I spoke too soon. Same thing is happening, but the temperature gauge now goes up and down and doesn't just stick up in the orange section. UGH!

I named this post "Susan's Radiator Problem SOLVED" because I posted an earlier question describing the full situation.

One big difference was that before when it went and stayed in the orange, the radiator felt cool everywhere but at the top. NOW, the radiator is warm all over.

So I'll continue with asking for ideas as to what is going on. The gauge was right in the middle where it should be for a couple miles, now it's creeping up to the orange, going back down, going back up, and the radiator feels warm all over (more hot at the top). Not sure if I should drive it the 35 highway miles to work tomorrow or not!

I wonder if you had 'foam' in the water pump, which would make the pump useless. At least it would have slowed the flow of antifreeze. Now that the anti foam junk is at work, you might just have air in the top of the engine.

Warm up the engine so that the thermostat opens (the top hose will get warm). Take off the cap on the overflow bottle and squeeze the top hose a few times. Be careful that you do not overflow the bottle! You are just trying to get bubbles in the system out.

If there is no air in the system and the engine fan is running properly, you may be in need of a new pump.

Klaus
--
There is no present time, just the past and future

"The gauge was right in the middle where it should be for a couple miles, now it's creeping up to the orange, going back down, going back up, and the radiator feels warm all over (more hot at the top)."

You don't mention whether whacking the dash has any effect on this. You may have the flaky temperature stabilizer yet compounding with the real repair you just finished.

Notes on the Temp Faker - Or That Temp Comp Board
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

A thief broke into the local police station and stole all the
toilets and urinals, leaving no clues. A spokesperson was quoted as
saying, "We have absolutely nothing to go on."

Art, I wrote a few months ago about the issues I've had with my 1990 240 wagon. At that time, I could tap the plastic outside the gauge and it would go down. The most recent few days, it wouldn't tap down, and it had never gone so far up to the orange. Since having the radiator drained and refilled, I can at least tap back down the gauge.

I keep wondering if I don't need a whole instrument cluster or something (like the whole thing that's in the pictures you linked to). My fuel gauge is dropped to the bottom, the odometer doesn't work, the trip meter doesn't work, and my speedometer needle sometimes is erratic. My windshield wipers move slowly (AND I replaced the wiper motor, which didn't fix it). The wipers will swipe for a few minutes, then they stop. My automatic door locks recently stopped working. The inside center panel lights (where the heater panel is) don't work. My interior light on the ceiling stopped working, too. More or less, slowly everything seems to be cutting out on me, and I don't know why.

The odometer stopped at 208,099 in November. I've probably put a few thousand miles on it since then with my drives to Hunt Valley. All of these things have been slowly stopping since last year. Could it just be that the car is old and everything's going out on it, or could it be a board somewhere that's shutting down slowly? I don't know what could go out next.

As for the radiator, I'm hoping that water is circulating and that it would be shown by how the full radiator is warm after driving. As said, when that gauge was all the way to orange, and with driving a full 35 or so miles at 65 mph, it didn't seem normal that the radiator would be cool to the touch when I'd get home. After having the radiator drained today and refilled, I drove around for a little bit, but the entire radiator was warm.

Sometimes I wish I didn't have to work so much that I could take time to learn to enjoy working on my car!

Hi Susan,

You have a 240. All those things you mentioned are minor issues that distinguish a Volvo 240 from the ordinary commuter car you see passing you up on the Harrisburg expy each morning. The odometer, central locking, console lighting, and wiper problems are all unrelated to each other. The one that is possibly the most daunting is the wiper problem; see my site for some prior experience and post another thread if needed.

Because the wiper issue is a safety problem, you ought to give that priority as you have the overheating trouble, but otherwise the remaining things can be dealt with one at a time, and if you're persistent, they will eventually be conquered and life with your 240 will again be fun.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Lettin' the cat outta the bag is a whole lot easier'n puttin' it back.

Hi Art,

The wiper thing first happened in pouring rain on 83N when I was in the passing lane. Scary!! I pulled over, and the wipers started working again for a little bit, then failed. Next day, I got some Rain X, and that helped. If I'm in the rain now, I swipe the wipers only when needed. If I leave them on, they slow down within a few minutes, then stop. The Rain X does a really good job!

I will post again when I get the problem looked at (or check the gauge myself). I posted a lengthier reply to someone else who asked some specific questions.

In the meantime, I'll keep driving my niece's car. So glad I have that as a backup!!

Thanks!!

Art's most likely right. Bad temperature compensation board. Gives crazy gauge readings or doesn't work at all (like my old 90 240).

What year is your car?

The wiper linkage wears out over time, so that is a possibility. And not one of the easier 240 DIY fixes -- but lube might help. This mioght make more noise than the wipers generally do.

The only other thing that comes to mind is that, within the harness's plug for the motor, a connection could be failing, and the increased resistance at the failing point would causes heat and that heat would cause even more resistance (and some more damage to the connection). Once the wire cools down, you start over. If that is the problem, the plastic part of the plug might be showing some heat damage.

Be careful.
--
jds

Hi jds,

Thanks for your post! Just wondering if an issue like you've brought up would show up in a diagnostics check or a code reading from somewhere like Advance Auto.

I added a new post that I'm taking it to a local shop and will post the true diagnosis as soon as I get it.

Thank you!

Susan

I've got a 1990 240, too, but it's a wagon. Gotta love 'em!!!!!

Never heard of Anti Foam for Radiators.

The gauge is reading normal now?

50/50 mix is the norm.. live and learn.



--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html http://cleanflametrap.com/tony/

I think your biggest problem is that the system had no water in it, just coolant.
The coolant is NOT as good a heat transfer agent as water, and the additives that make it
foam are also meant to be diluted with water.
Next time I'd suggest filling it with 50/50 antifreeze and water and forget the antifoam.
You should not need it!
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Oklahoma

am I guessing correctly that the foam is a tremendous amount of air in the system? I am not sure what exactly anti-foam is. Sounds like a Burma Shave product. What happens if one idles the car with the radiator cap loose, thus letting a lot of air out while watching carefully to make sure the vehicle doesn't get overheated severely.

Hello,

On the many cars that we have worked on that the accuracy of the temperature gauge was suspect, the only reliable way to check the gauge is to use a known good gauge to verify.

On old cars, this can be easy, but on a 240, the sending unit is hard to access.

However, modern technology, probably from NASA, has developed "non contact thermometers".

Most non contact thermometers are a point and shoot tool that can measure the infrared waves and can determine the temperature.

Most of them have a laser to help you aim.

Cheap versions are available for around $40.00 and they can be a useful tool for all kinds of things besides automotive.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502