1992 245 210k very well maintained

While still trying to track a random and very intermittent stumble, my car just now started losing oil!

I only check the oil level before longer trips, did so 2 weeks ago, it was full - as always: never had to top it off in the 6 years I owned it. Last night I checked it and it was missing half a quart. Topped it off, drove 50 miles, parked it, checked level again after 2 hours, missing half a quart.

The car was parked level, there are no drips or puddles underneath the car, there are no leaks of any fluids under the hood, stopped by the dealership to have them check it closely and up on the lift and they say everything looks fine. No loss of power, great acceleration. Since I swapped the ECU last week, gas mileage has improved to 27-28 mph hwy (from 24). Last oil change was 3 months ago.

I don't see any smoke, I don't smell any oil. I did notice black soot inside the tailpipe.

Where does it go? Is it really possible for the engine to wear so suddenly to where it burns that much oil? This is a car that has been meticulously maintained, never overheated, oil and filter change every 3000 miles for the 6 years I owned it, and likely not abused by prior owners either.









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1992 245 210k

Had the compression checked today: 130 - 135 - 130 - 135. It's within specs so they did not proceed to do a leak-down test.

Spark plugs were clean.

I forgot to ask about the oil separator but will put that on my list of upcoming maintenance.

Will keep a close eye on the oil level and report back with any new developments.

Thanks for everyone's input and tips!
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1992 245 210k

When you have the oil changed, ask them to save the oil - give them a good container - and ask them to keep the filter.

Examine the oil and cut the filter open to examine it.
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'96 855R,'64 PV544 driver, '67 P1800 basket case, '72 Yamaha Rd400, '68 Honda 350-4, '12 XC70, the first 5 are mine, heh, heh, 525,000 miles put on 10 bricks James A Sousa

What will I be looking for?
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1992 245 210k

Valve seals???

They are rubber...

oil and fuel ???

though not an expert here...

I didn't notice any interest in checking that rear cam plug on the back of the engine. Known to loose oil really fast if it pops loose. Back of the engine might be dirty enough for it to be catching a good deal of the oil but usually its visible some from the passengers side looking at the top back of the engine. Cover your hand with a paper towel and wipe just below the cam cover (top of engine).

It was discussed and I checked it best I can, there is some grime back there but nothing fresh.

Strangely, it has not been losing any more oil since the last top-off 150 miles ago.

A friend followed me and saw black smoke coming out the tailpipe, under load only. Today I noticed in addition to the soot, the inside of the tailpipe was wet. Wiped it, smelled it, smells like fuel.

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1992 245 210k

It was mentioned a few times. I avoided it as the OP indicated there were no drips under the car.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far - much appreciated!

I don't have a mirror small enough but I felt for the rear cam plug and things felt a little greasy back there but not necessarily fresh. But yeah, that plug that was my first worry, as its failure tends to be rather catastrophic. I *assume* they looked at that yesterday...not sure though.

Bottom underneath and around timing belt cover is dry.

Could a ring become stuck, and unstuck again? Because I have not had any more oil loss since I topped it off 60 miles ago (50 miles of which was the reverse trip from where it needed top-off; level land).

Will take it in for the compression/leak-down test, and depending on results, have them look closely at the rear cam plug, discuss oil separator, change oil and then keep an eye on things.

Before this oil loss I was contemplating seafoaming the crankcase prior to next oil change, would that be a good or bad idea right now?
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1992 245 210k

Hi,

Get some old rags and wipe up the area where the plug is best you can. If you go to Autozone they always have cheap ($1-$2) inspection mirrors at the front counter by the register. I would clean the area, check that it's clean with the mirror and monitor that area with the mirror after driving.

You might very well have an oil leak that is unrelated to the stumble and other problems.

Check the OBD box on the fender for codes.

Travis

There are no OBD codes. The stumble has been going on, intermittently, for two months and I have another thread here about that problem. I believe it's unrelated but who knows.

Will keep checking the plug this weekend.
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1992 245 210k

Cleaning the sludge out of your block would be a good idea, but then be prepared for a couple of minor leaks until the seals swell back into place.

I found that taking off the oil cap and doing a visual on the amount of varnish on the cam, take a picture, and comparing that to near the end of the treatment works. The cam should look new again.

As to 'sticking' rings, that could happen but would be most unusual. The rings and bores in these engines are extremely robust.

Check that rear seal again, it shouldn't be damp.
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My name is Klaus and I am a V♂lv♂holic

Hi Dag,

Sounds like a tough one, but I think the 2 other posters had a couple of good thoughts.

Sounds like you checked everywhere for leaks, but I agree with Travis, check your rear cam plug for leaks. It will drip down to where your tranny bolts up to your engine. You certainly don't want that plug to blow-out on you, my 90 did, and it was one a hell of a mess!

Onkel Udo's suggestion that it could be a stuck ring is another good thought although I think that is rare on b230f engine. That, however, would explain the black soot. Clearly your car is running rich and perhaps the oil is slipping through into the exhaust.

Jim

"Onkel Udo's suggestion that it could be a stuck ring is another good thought although I think that is rare on b230f engine."

Yep...it is so rare I have never heard of it happening...ever...but it is one of those things that can cause all the symptoms. In fact, I can't say that I have ever heard of an oil CONSUMPTION issue related to a B230f that was not linked to the valve train. Even when ring wear leads to excessive blow-by, it always seems to result in the PCV system being overcome and all the oil leaking out, not being burned.

Now a turbo would be a whole different matter.

Agreed. Don't remember ever hearing about or reading here about a stuck ring.

When checking the oil separator be sure and check its hose too. At 210k the separator should be replaced or serviced anyway...

Worst case scenario is that it is going into your coolant due to a blown head gasket.

Best case scenario is dipstick operator error.

In between is a host of potential items but pulling the plugs and examining them would be the first step. If one is too clean or does not look like the others, you have a hint on where to go.

Sudden wear is rare but s stuck ring could cause much higher consumption. Not a common problem on these cars but possible.

How clean is your entire PCV system (flame trap, oil separator, vac hoses to and from)?

Flame trap and vacuum hoses were done 2 months ago. Oil separator - not sure that was checked I shall hope so? It was not replaced I know that.

Dipstick operator error - no. I so wish!

Haven't checked the coolant yet will do when it cools off.

Scheduled a compression and leak-down test for Monday.

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1992 245 210k

Unless you tell your mechanic to replace the oil separator, he'll never touch it. It might be a good idea to remove it and clean it or replace it. Of course that's a bit of a project and along the way you can do alot of other maintenance. Not many mechanics do that stuff. There is a lot of good info on the FAQ
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89 240 wagon, 94 940, 200K, 94 940, 135K

I will look into that, thanks!
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1992 245 210k

Coolant looks good.
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1992 245 210k

Hi,

Get a small inspection mirror and check the rear cam plug. You can go by feel but it might be a bit tough to feel back there-the plug could have popped out or split.

Lay on the ground and look at the bottom of the lower timing cover at the harmonic balancer to see if there is dripping/splattered oil-your crank seal could be leaking and spraying the oil back on the underside of the car.

Travis