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Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

posted by  73AMC on  Mon Nov 18 05:58 CST 2013
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last visit: Wed Jan 15 19:46 CST 2014
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Hey guys...

My car is running great after it starts. Once its has a chance to sit for an hour or two, or better yet, over night, I get into it turn the key and it will just crank, maybe pop once or twice until I tap the gas pedal while cranking then it fires right up and smooths out.

Im looking for some suggestions on what could possibly cause this. Car runs good once its started.

I picked some things up at the junkyard today in case I end up needing them. I got a FPR, a fuel pump relay, and a cold start injector, which I later found out that my car doesnt have one.

So, I had a buddy put his ear up to the gas fill without the cap on and I keyed on the ignition. He said he didnt hear anything turn on or make any noise. I def can hear a pump running once the car is running, but nothing that sounds like a pump priming.

Help guys! I dont want to kill my starter. LOL!

-Justin








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    Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

    posted by  73AMC on  Wed Dec 11 20:08 CST 2013
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    last visit: Wed Jan 15 19:46 CST 2014
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    So the car left me stranded tonight.

    I got back in it after an hour of it sitting and it would just crank and crank. Ive been fighting this occasional hard start issue for a month now. Replaced all of the typical easy stuff so far.

    The neighbor took me back down to the car later this evening and I crank and cranked some more and after 30 seconds of cranking along with pump the gas pedal it finally started and I was able to drive it home.

    What do you guys think is up with this thing? My next guess is maybe CTS? I had another vehicle with a bad CTS that sort of exhibited the same long crank and then finally starts symptoms.

    Help guys, lol








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      Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

      posted by  Trev29 on  Thu Dec 12 06:28 CST 2013
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      last visit: Fri Oct 17 05:56 CST 2014
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      Have you confirmed that the injectors aren't leaking?

      It does sound like a pressure problem. If you have a cold start valve, you may be able to disconnect it and attach a pressure gauge there.
      --
      1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.








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        Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

        posted by  73AMC on  Thu Dec 12 06:38 CST 2013
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        last visit: Wed Jan 15 19:46 CST 2014
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        Just to rule out a pressure problem, in between cranking sessions, I jumped both the pump fuses and ran the pump for a few seconds. It did not help. Still cranked for another 40 seconds before eventually firing. I think Im going to replace the CTS next.








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    Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

    posted by  machine man on  Mon Nov 18 11:42 CST 2013
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    last visit: Wed Oct 22 15:40 CST 2014
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    I think you are on the right track thinking that the fuel rail is losing its rest filled volume or the pump is not pushing fuel up there fast enough.
    It could get deeper by you are describing a common symptom.

    Look for bulletproofs Oct. 18th post on how to run the pumps without cranking. Very well written.

    The FPR's are known to develop a leaky return valve on the line back to the tank or lose fuel into the intake. Always nice to have an extra one of those.








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      Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

      posted by  stogeyman on  Mon Nov 18 13:45 CST 2013
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      last visit: Fri Jun 13 18:07 CST 2014
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      Sounds like a fuel pressure regulator. The way to check is to pull the vacuum line at the FPR in the morning before you start it. Sniff the vacuum line. If it smell like raw gas, replace the regulator. You can skip this if you smell gas in the morning when you get to the car. That's another sign of a bad FPR. If you want to have extra fun, get a piece of clear hose from Home Depot and replace your vacuum line (from FPR to intake manifold) with it. Run the car for a day. In the morning look at the clear line. If you see droplets or fluid. You have a bad FPR.

      Your described symptoms fit a bad FPR because the leaking diaphram allows the fuel pressure to release when the car sits. Meaning when you go to start it the fuel pumps have to churn for a while to build up enough fuel pressure for ignition. A bad in tank fuel pump can cause these symptoms too. If the main pump is bad it won't start. A bad in take tank fuel pump will cause hard starting. Finally, a dirty fuel filter can give you these symptoms.

      Whew! Out of all of those things, I'd start with the easiest to diagnose, the FPR.








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        Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

        posted by  73AMC on  Mon Dec 2 08:22 CST 2013
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        last visit: Wed Jan 15 19:46 CST 2014
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        Well guys, I replaced the FPR with one I got at the junkyard, and it does the same thing intermittently. So we can rule that out. Does anyone have any other suggestions for why it wont start up right away after sitting? I literally tap the pedal once while cranking, then it fires up. It kinda sputters then smooths out.

        I would really like to solve this.

        I have replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor, o2 sensor, air filter and FPR.

        Not sure what else to try. Im sure its due for a fuel filter change, but I cant see that causing the issue.

        Thanks!

        -Justin








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          Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

          posted by  73AMC on  Tue Dec 3 16:14 CST 2013
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          last visit: Wed Jan 15 19:46 CST 2014
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          As mentioned before I replaced the regulator and it still starts funky after sitting. So I tested the in tank pump at the fuse panel, and it is working. Not sure how I can test pressure without a schrader port on the rail. It seems like it has a slight miss to me. It could just be the shitty motor mounts.]

          Help guys!








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            Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

            posted by  stogeyman on  Tue Dec 3 23:19 CST 2013
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            last visit: Fri Jun 13 18:07 CST 2014
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            You've eliminated the easy part. Sounds like you're looking at a bad in tank pump. The pump under the car (main pump) is running. When you turn the key the priming pump you hear is the in tank pump. If that's not making noise there's your culprit and the it fits the symptoms you've described. Change the fuel filter (under the car) while you're at it and you'll be good to go.








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              Hard Start After Sitting...88 240 200

              posted by  carscape on  Thu Dec 12 12:16 CST 2013
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              last visit: Thu Dec 19 16:01 CST 2013
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              A leaking outlet check valve on the main pump will also let system pressure fall off causing a long crank. Used to be a big problem on K fuel cars. They are (used to be) available separately.
              K fuel cars only run the pump when ignition makes a dwell signal, not sure about LH.
              A good main pump will pull thru a dead prepump, doesn't like it, but it will.
              A whining main pump in hot weather, especially w/low fuel level,is a classic sign of a bad prepump.
              The throttle tap could be unsticking a gummed up butterfly which can then be
              opened by the idle motor. No air, no run. Try the tap before cranking.






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