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I'm trying to do a complete transmission flush and change the filter while I am at it.
I'm stuck trying to drop the pan out, because the bolt that connects the bottom line to the transmission pan is stuck. I've used penetrating anti-seize oil, and I've almost broke a bloody crescent wrench heaving on it myself. Is there a trick you veterans might know? Or does anyone know a workaround?
Right now my car is up on blocks because the seal has flaked off and I'm wary of re-bolting the transmission pan without the rubber seal. I have a new one to put in as well, but I don't have all of the old one off either.
It's a first time doing this and I've already learned a few lessons. Any more to get me out would be appreciate it.
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Hi,
I cut the dip stick tube above the height of oil pan and then removed the oil pan. While the oil pan was out, the tube could removed with two large wrenches and a torch. When the pan was reinstalled, the cut in the tube was covered with a heater hose and two clamps. A compression fitting will work also.
PS Don't heat the nut with torch while in the car, because the oil in tube will catch fire and you will not see it.
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I did remove an AW70 trans dipstick tube on a 740 a few years ago. In my case the starter bolts were so tight and inaccessible that I gave up trying to remove them.
The front of the car was on blocks that gave about 16 inches clearance under the transmission. I found a wrench that fit the backing fitting on the pan and slightly tensioned that wrench with blocks or wedges on the floor. Then I used my biggest wrench (I think it was a pipe wrench) and managed to loosen the fitting by pushing up on the pipe wrench handle end with a floor jack. I was amazed at how much torque was required, but eventually the fitting came loose so I could remove the pan. Reinstallation used the same method in reverse.
The filter in my AW70 was clogged due to the ATF cooler leaking in the radiator. Replacing the filter plus a lot of flushing did restore the AW70 to usable operation.
Before removing the pan, the area around it on the transmission and the car body must be thoroughly cleaned. Any dirt getting into the transmission could cause problems.
I think the only reasonable way to remove the dipstick tube with pan still installed is to put the car on a lift. A carefully pre-tensioned tight fitting backup wrench would be needed for the pan, then a very strong wrench with a long extension handle used for the dipstick fitting itself.
If the car is not driveable and the trans pan has to come off, it is probably more cost effective to tow or trailer the car to someone with a lift. Then strong wrenches could be used on the dipstick tube or heavy duty impact socket/extensions on the starter bolts.
Mike
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Dear Mike91,
Hope you're well. Your's is the second post I can recall, reporting removal of an AW transmission's dipstick/fill tube!!
When the wrench on the lock nut ("nut" wrench) was lifted (and so turned) using a floor jack, how did you avoid turning the wrench on the pan's hex fitting ("pan" wrench), and so damaging the pan?
Did you wedge wood blocks above the "pan" wrench's handle, to keep it from moving?
I ask, because I presume it was impossible to use "muscle power" to hold still the "pan" wrench, given that a floor jack was used to turn the "nut" wrench.
Thanks for your comment.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Dear Spook,
I placed the "pan" wrench so that the torque would be rotating the handle towards the floor, then wedged the wrench handle. The "pan" wrench did not move when I applied torque to the "nut" wrench handle using a floor jack.
I tried to remove the starter bolts but did not have the proper impact wrench or socket extensions.
Removal of the dipstick tube without damage is much more likely to be successful with the car on a lift.
Best Regards,
Mike
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Interestingly, two friends who are young and strong have simply undone the filler tube connections, on the ground with the cars on jackstands. I was surprised, but they did them, with normal wrenches.
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Dear jerryc,
Hope you're well. Would one of these friends perchance be named "Sven"?
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Dear Mike91,
Hope you're well. Yours is the second post I can recall, reporting removal of an AW transmission's dipstick/fill tube!!
When the wrench on the lock nut ("nut" wrench) was lifted (and so turned) using a floor jack, how did you avoid turning the wrench on the pan's hex fitting ("pan" wrench), and so damaging the pan?
Did you wedge wood blocks above the "pan" wrench's handle, to keep it from moving?
I ask, because I presume it was impossible to use "muscle power" to hold still the "pan" wrench, given that a floor jack was used to turn the "nut" wrench.
Thanks for your comment.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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"I'm stuck trying to drop the pan out, because the bolt that connects the bottom line to the transmission pan is stuck."
My recollection about that "bottom line" is that it connects to the transmission body, rather than the pan. And nothing connected to the tranny itself needs removing to do the flush anyway.
Just sayin'.
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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Dear lucid,
Hope you're well. You're correct: no part on the transmission need be touched, to flush the fluid.
Sivarias' use of "the bottom line" could be taken to refer to one of the fluid pipes to/from the in-radiator cooler. Once, though, he explained that he had removed the pan bolts, but still could not remove the pan, I concluded he referred to the dipstick/filler tube.
There, too, you're correct: removing the dipstick/filler tube is needed, only if the tranmission pan gasket has failed, the pan has been damaged, or water-contamination of the transmission fluid means the filter could be clogged with clutch-pack facing fibers.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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I agree, do not remove the dipstick tube at the pan. Maybe when the car was younger, and on a lift it would have been easier.
I did it before I knew better and my photo in the FAQ should be removed.
"AVOID REMOVING THE THE TRANSMISSION DIPSTICK TUBE AT THE PAN"
My second pan removal, only due to damage and a bent flange which caused leaking was with the dipstick tube installed. It was faster but still not that simple. I did bang out the dent in the pan and flattened the flange. Someone managed to strip out the the drain screw. Thanks goodness the screw is aluminum. BTW, this pan on son's 1994 940 with 200k, was never removed before and had a clean screen and pan. There was some metal on the magnet, a normal amount I assume.
If the past fluid changes are in question then do a couple fluid flushes 2-4k miles apart.
Tom
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1. do not try and remove the fill tube line to the pan. if you break that fitting its new pan time for you
2. remove the two starter bolts and take the pan and full tube off as one
3. the rest of your trouble should fade
note:
to flush you need never remove the pan at all, even volvo suggests pan removal for filter cleaning is un necessary.
do the flush at the upper line that enter the radiator trans cooling section
search this forum for exhaustive detailing how to do this procedure
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Hello,
You would need to get the proper leverage to unbolt the transmission dipstick i.e the car hoisted up above you as in proper workshop. If the car is only on jacks while you lying down trying to do this its hardly possible.
Anyway you could TRY to remove it with two open ended wrenches using the 'V' method - but don't use crescent aka adjustable wrench. Position one wrench and the other on the two bolts holding the dipstick line. Arrange them in a 'V' position so that you could grasp their ends with just one hand then apply force. You need to use non-adjustable wrenches in this method to avoid having small 'play' i.e movement as adjustable wrenches do. If this fails then I'd remove the transmission pan with the dipstick tube still attached.
Which transmission is on your the car? Is it AW or ZF. If you have ZF like me don't bother to change the inside filter. ZF filter is just a fine wire mesh, hardly any filtration material at all. Just do the transmission line fluid flush (mentioned in FAQ) after replacing the gasket.
Another tip on transmission is to start using in-line filter such as Magnefine. I'm using it in my car as the ZF filtration is hardly adequate. Choose the one with 3/8inch inlet/outlet. And so far its problem free.
About flushing...if ZF try to use approved fluids as mentioned in their website. Really make a difference in shifting. For AW I'd leave for other members to suggest (I have no experience here) or refer to FAQ.
Regards,
Amarin.
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Dear Amarin,
Hope you're well. I cannot recall a post - over the past several years - reporting successful removal of the transmission dipstick hex fitting. I do recall at least one post, reporting damage to the pan, as a result of trying to undo that hex fitting.
The transmission pan (Part #1233415) is not a hugely costly item: about $70 at a dealer. However, absent evidence that water has gotten into the ATF - and so contaminated the ATF with clutch-pack material - it isn't obvious why the pan should be removed.
Your comments as to the nature of the filter found in the ZF transmissions apply, I think, to the filters used in Aisin Warner transmissions. The mesh is fairly coarse, so many solid contaminants will pass through it.
That said, the Aisin-Warner transmissions - used in most 940s sold in North American markets - seems to be quite robust.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Dear Spook,
Hope you're well too. I do concur with you on the risk of removing the bolt. In reality as you've mentioned there's no post of successful bolt removal so far. However the 'V' method is also mentioned in the transmission FAQ.
Regards,
Amarin.
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Dear Amarin,
Hope you're well. The "V" method - if I properly understand it - will not remove the hex locknut, without risk of damage to the pan's hex fitting.
To avoid that damage, one wrench - that on the pan's hex fitting - must be held perfectly still, while torque is applied only to the wrench on the hex locknut. If torque is applied to the pan's hex fitting and to the hex locknut, the pan's hex fitting may be rotated, before the hex lock nut "breaks loose". While the pan is not made of paper-thin steel, I'd guess it will easily be distorted to the point, where the filler tube will be misaligned.
The same problem arises as regards loosening the hex lock nut, on the upper ATF pipe, that goes to the in-radiator ATF cooler. If the radiator's brass hex fitting is turned, that can easily break the seal between that fitting and the in-radiator ATF cooler. Breaking the seal allows coolant to enter the ATF. To avoid this damage, one wrench should be used to hold the radiator's brass hex fitting, while turning counter-clockwise the other wrench, on the steel hex fitting, at the end of the ATF pipe.
Some things in the FAQs are not perfectly clear. For example, when removing an in-tank fuel gauge send unit, it is absolutely necessary to remove completely the rubber hose between the steel fuel filler tube and the top of the send unit. Unless that hose is removed and set aside, it will block reinstallation of the send unit. The FAQs did not state that complete removal of the rubber hose is absolutely required. Ask me how I learned about the necessity of removing completely the rubber hose in question.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Dear Amarin and Spook,
I thank you very much for your assistance. You understood my plight. I apologize for not having the proper vocabulary to have made it clearer.
I was following the FAQ on this sight to flush a transmission. However, considering this was attempt to move beyond just doing oil changes on my own, I thought that the transmission filter needed to be replaced like an oil filter. Perhaps not as often, but on a 92 with 600K miles (yes 600k), I thought it might have been over due.
Sadly, I obviously got in over my head here. Thanks for all of the help. Could anyone be kind enough to post a picture of the starter bolts in question? I'm new to this and don't know what that would look like.
Thank you very much!
Sivarias
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1. crawl under car eyes open
2. locate trans full tube with dipstick in it
3. follow tube upwards until you find two brackets welded to tube
4. follow brackets until you find two bolts sicking thru them
5. those are the starter bolts. the upper one can be quite difficult to remove because of long extensions needed to access it and the torque applied to tighten it.
if you do not have GOOD air impact or lots of upper body strength you might find this bolt hard to remove. be warned
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Final note!
I found the starter bolts in question, and was able to get the bottom one. The top one however was in such an awkward spot that by the time I got my breaker bar up there there was no room to turn the wrench. Sadly I had the same problem coming from above. My smaller wrenches had much the same problem. I finally just resulted in forcing the pan down about 6-9 inches and putting the gasket on by bending it around the filter. It about 15 minutes (working by touch as I was) and I had some trouble re-aligning all of the holes but it worked for me.
Blessings,
Sivarias
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Dear Sivarias,
Hope you're well. Accessing the top starter bolt requires a lot of extensions and a long breaker bar, or an impact wrench. Saturating the bolt with PB Blaster (or Kroil, or a similar penetrating oil) may also help.
Did you bend the filler pipe, to get the clearance needed to install the new gasket? If so, has the new gasket sealed completely.
Thank you for your report.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Spook,
I bent something, most likely culprit is the filler pipe. As far as I can tell the gasket sealed completely. I was able to tighten all of the bolts in. I haven't noticed any seepage so far. I've just been looking at the ground however. I'm still new at this so it's entirely possible I'm missing something. Should I look elsewhere?
Blessings,
Siv
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Dear Sivarias,
Hope you're well. To be 100% sure that the new gasket has made a tight seal: (a) thoroughly clean the pan, using a solvent (to remove all oil, etc.); (b) tape a 2" wide strip of white paper towel around the pan, just below the flange, through which pass the pan bolts.
Use duct tape (or something similar) to secure the paper towel strips.
If the weather is dry (so the towel strips won't get soaked) drive for a half-hour. If the towels are still as white as when you taped them to the pan, the gasket has sealed.
If the towels are pink, automatic transmission fluid is bleeding past the gasket. Resist the urge to over-tighten the pan bolts: they are easily sheared or stripped. Very, very gently try to turn each pan bolt. Put only two fingers on the wrench. If the bolt doesn't move, leave it alone.
If a bolt or two moves, even slightly, repeate the towel test. If the towels stay white, you've solved the problem. If the towels are still pink, I think the gasket has to be removed, so that the pan flange can be cleaned. It is possible that old gasket residue - and not very much of it - keeps the new gasket from sealing.
The just-replaced gasket can almost certainly be re-used. Any problem is gunk - perhaps only a tiny amount - on the pan flange (or on the bottom edge of the tranny) - that keeps the gasket from making an oil-tight seal.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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Dear Sivarias,
Hope you're well. I wish you had consulted this site's FAQs, before starting work. The best way to flush transmission fluid (ATF) is to remove the upper pipe, that takes ATF to the in-radiator ATF cooler. A length of plastic hose, connected to the end of that pipe, allows old ATF to be pumped into a bucket (or large bottle), while you pour fresh ATF into the tranny, via a funnel into the top of the ATF dipstick tube.
Read the FAQs and do exactly as directed. It is critically important that the brass hex fitting on the radiator be held ABSOLUTELY STILL (with a wrench), when turning the hex fitting on the steel pipe, that takes ATF into the in-raidator ATF cooler. If the radiator's brass nex fitting is allowed to move even slightly, it will damage the in-radiator ATF cooler, and requirement radiator replacement.
Only in exceptional circumstances, is it ever needful to change the transmission filter. Among such circumstances: a failed in-radiator ATF cooler allows coolant (half of which is water) into the ATF. The water dissolves the glue, that adheres transmission clutch-pack facings. Clutch pack fibers clog the filter, forcing a filter change. If your ATF every looks cloudy/milky (rather than a clear, rosy red), water has entered the ATF. The radiator must be replaced and the ATF flushed. This work is urgent: every day water is in the ATF is a day on which damage expands. Another bad impact of water in the ATF is that water doesn't lubricate, and turns to steam at normal transmission operating temperatures. Steam also doesn't lubricate.
You will not be able to free the hex nut, that secures the ATF dipstick tube to the pan. That nex nut was tightened by a Volvo assembly-line worker known as Sven the Torquer. Sven applied so much torque, that no one is known to have loosened that hex fitting.
To rescue yourself, you need to remove the two bolts, that secure the starter, as those bolts also secure the transmission dipstick tube. With those bolts removed, the pan can be removed, the pan gasket replaced, and the pan re-installed. While the pan is off, you can check the filter. It should be clean. If there are any metal frags/dust in the pan bottom, you can remove them. They'll do no harm if they're not removed.
When reinstalling the tranny pan, go gently when it comes to snugging the bolts. With a fresh gasket, turn in the bolts with your fingers, as far as you can. Then, use a wrench to turn each bolt 1/8 turn. That should suffice. Clean the pan's walls thoroughly. After a couple of days, inspect. If the pan's walls are not wet with fluid, you've tightened the bolts properly. If the pan's walls are wet with fluid, tighten the bolts another 1/8 turn. It is easy to shear these bolts. That is best not done.
Once you've reassembled the pan and re-installed the starter, read the FAQs and flush the tranny. That will remove the used fluid. The system holds about 8.5 quarts. A 12-quart flush will push-out most of the old fluid.
Hope this helps.
Yours faithfully,
Spook
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"Read the FAQs and do exactly as directed. It is critically important that the brass hex fitting on the radiator be held ABSOLUTELY STILL (with a wrench), when turning the hex fitting on the steel pipe, that takes ATF into the in-raidator ATF cooler. If the radiator's brass hex fitting is allowed to move even slightly, it will damage the in-radiator ATF cooler, and requirement radiator replacement."
Hi Spook,
I too always thought that those big hex fittings where the cooling lines attach were an integral part of the cooler itself. But Art's picture below shows them to be merely threaded hex nuts holding the cooler to the radiator tank. As such, they're handy for "anchoring" a larger counter-hold wrench when loosening/tightening the smaller line fitting nut. To me, they don't seem likely to cause any damage to the cooler itself, even if they did move a smidge (which I've not seen happen).
Art Benstein Photo
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.
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